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WikdWaze
08-26-2004, 03:30 AM
http://www.reallyrawhoney.com/

Y'all take a look and tell me what you think. Seems there'd be no shortage of nutrients in that stuff!!

Derf
08-26-2004, 05:05 AM
"Really Raw Honey is totally unprocessed so it still contains pollen, propolis, honeycomb and live enzymes--all the goodness the bees put in! That's why Really Raw Honey is creamy, smooth and spreadable with crunchy "cappings," more solid, rather than liquid. "

If the honey contains propolis, comb, cappings, etc., it is not only unproccessed (good) but it is also poorly extracted (bad). There is absolutely no excuse for propolis in honey, and there shouldn't be much by way of comb and cappings unless the frames were handled carelessly. And if you've already got that shopping list in the honey, you can probably expect to find plenty of brood and dead bee parts too. All these impurities float to the top of fresh honey where they are easily removed. It sounds to me like they are trying to turn a flaw into a selling point.

To quote one of my favourite beekeeping authors John F. Adams: 'Food faddists are particularly keen on the notion that Marketed honey is polluted, and pay premium prices for "raw" or "natural" honey. From my cursory experience with such "premium" honey of the health food stores traffic, unsrupulous (or pragmatic) honey producers bottle up honey which is unmarketable because of its dark, strong flavor, and making a virtue of a necessity call it natural. Which there is no question it is! My experience has shown, both as a child and an adult, that there is some sort of mysterious bond between healthful and unpalatable.'

While I think perhaps John's palate may be a little over delicate, and I do believe that most mass marketed honey suffers from overprocessing, I think Reallyrawhoney.com is hyping an inferior product. They claim that they make sure their honey contains all the goodness the bees put in the honey by making sure it is "never strained, never filtered, and never heated" but that isn't unique and doesn't justify all kinds of junk in the honey. The bees themselves never eat wax or cappings, certainly not propolis, and as much as they can help it the adults don't eat pollen either (it can make they sick durring the winter).

Probably nothing wrong with this honey, but I wouldn't pay anything extra for it.

Norskersword
08-26-2004, 05:13 AM
By far the most interesting post I've ever seen on this forum has been Chuck Wintergreen's explanation on how to make good mead naturally. It is relevant because he explains that darker honey tends to contain more nutrients and if you include a really dark honey, like buckwheat, you wont have any need to add nutrient.

Take a look at Chuck's post, Wikd. It is super interesting and enlightening. When Vicky made these new updates I was very glad that I had access to that post again and was able to read it again.

http://gotmead.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=troubleshooting;action=display;num=1 093397594

Oskaar
08-26-2004, 05:14 AM
I never really bought into the whole "Raw/Organic/totaly unprocessed honey" kind of vendors.

I think Derf is on the right track about these guys taking an inferior product and using it as a selling point. Also, I would imagine they are trying to minimize their labor (filtering, etc), equipment costs and such, while maximizing their profit. Their prices are pretty high!

Oskaar

Derf
08-26-2004, 05:30 AM
The worst part of it is that there really isn't much labour to eliminate. With out heat, filters, or strainers a simple settling tank will clean most of this crap out of the honey in a week or so. Bottle after settling. The resulting honey is clean and still "unprocessed". There is no excuse for charging more for dirt and dead bees.

Jmattioli
08-26-2004, 09:28 AM
By far the most interesting post I've ever seen on this forum has been Chuck Wintergreen's explanation on how to make good mead naturally. It is relevant because he explains that darker honey tends to contain more nutrients and if you include a really dark honey, like buckwheat, you wont have any need to add nutrient.
(snip)

I can tell you from first hand experience that Chucks advice is excellent but you need to be aware that Buckwheat honey still does not have all the nutrients/minerals required for complete fermentation. Chuck uses extremely hard water with his K1V Starting SG's no higher than 1.100. I guarantee you will not duplicate his fermentaion with either distilled or medium hard water and his recipe. It will stick. His water contains magnesium and calcium in the 300+ ppm range. I have duplicated his fermetation times by the addition of a minimal 1/8t of Fermax per gallon with medium hard water (60-90ppm) of calcium) and am in the process of experimenting if I can duplicate his fermentaion with buckwheat blends, K1v And only .5g magnesium added to my medium hard water instead of the Fermax. HArd water IS a prerequisite for Chuck's result and I'm sure he will tell you the same..
Joe

Oskaar
08-26-2004, 10:39 AM
I have really hard water here in So Cal. Unfortunately we also have a high amount of chlorine to accompany it. Boiling is the quick way to get rid of it, or you can let it evaporate.

I generally end up using bottled water.

Oskaar

WikdWaze
08-26-2004, 03:40 PM
"Really Raw Honey is totally unprocessed so it still contains pollen, propolis, honeycomb and live enzymes--all the goodness the bees put in! That's why Really Raw Honey is creamy, smooth and spreadable with crunchy "cappings," more solid, rather than liquid. "

If the honey contains propolis, comb, cappings, etc., it is not only unproccessed (good) but it is also poorly extracted (bad). There is absolutely no excuse for propolis in honey, and there shouldn't be much by way of comb and cappings unless the frames were handled carelessly. And if you've already got that shopping list in the honey, you can probably expect to find plenty of brood and dead bee parts too. All these impurities float to the top of fresh honey where they are easily removed. It sounds to me like they are trying to turn a flaw into a selling point.

To quote one of my favourite beekeeping authors John F. Adams: 'Food faddists are particularly keen on the notion that Marketed honey is polluted, and pay premium prices for "raw" or "natural" honey. From my cursory experience with such "premium" honey of the health food stores traffic, unsrupulous (or pragmatic) honey producers bottle up honey which is unmarketable because of its dark, strong flavor, and making a virtue of a necessity call it natural. Which there is no question it is! My experience has shown, both as a child and an adult, that there is some sort of mysterious bond between healthful and unpalatable.'

While I think perhaps John's palate may be a little over delicate, and I do believe that most mass marketed honey suffers from overprocessing, I think Reallyrawhoney.com is hyping an inferior product. They claim that they make sure their honey contains all the goodness the bees put in the honey by making sure it is "never strained, never filtered, and never heated" but that isn't unique and doesn't justify all kinds of junk in the honey. The bees themselves never eat wax or cappings, certainly not propolis, and as much as they can help it the adults don't eat pollen either (it can make they sick durring the winter).

Probably nothing wrong with this honey, but I wouldn't pay anything extra for it.
That's exactly what I was thinking. I have some idea how honey is extracted from the combs with a centrifuge in a bucket and I couldn't for the life of me figure out how all that other stuff would end up in it. I could see a little bit of wax and some pollen, but certainly not enough of anything to make the honey crunchy!!!!!!

ScottS
08-26-2004, 06:23 PM
The easy (lazy?) way to extract honey is to crush the comb and either press or strain the honey out. I'm guessing this is how they do it. Seems kind of stupid to me, as then you've destroyed the comb and the bees have to build it anew. Not to mention that a cheap centrifugal extractor is only $150.