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View Full Version : My experience with Lalvin K1V-1116 (Ice Pyment)



lbaker
10-13-2004, 08:00 PM
Well, back on 8/24/04, I decided to make an Ice Wine Pyment, so I started with an RJ Spagnols Ice Wine Kit, a selection of honeys, and a package of K1V-1116.

The OG of the wine kit was 1.150, which is a PA of ~20%. According to Lalvin, K1V-1116 has an alcohol tolerance of 18%. It appears to me that they LIED! Everything had stopped fermenting around 9/20/04, but since it hasn't really cleared, I hadn't opened the carboy and checked the SG. This morning, I finally decided it was time to find out where it was at. The SG tested at 1.050, which gives an ABV of ~13% (which agrees with most other observations on this site). Of course, I tasted the sample. It has a very nice flavor, with very little alcohol bite, and it is VERY sweet. Now, I like a sweet wine (or mead), but this might be a little bit too much. I would rather the mead had finished at 1.020 and then if too dry, I could sweeten to taste.

I could probably stand it as it is now, but I'm afraid that if the mead mellow very much with age, the sweetness will become too overpowering.

So, should I ...

1) add some EC-1118 and restart the fermentation.
2) leave it alone and drink it as is.
3) <insert other options here...>

Any thoughts?

Lyle
http://www.moremead.com/mead_logs/20040825_IcePyment.htm

Oskaar
10-13-2004, 08:18 PM
Maybe you could post your exact recipe and we can take a whack at figuring out what to try.

Cheers,

Oskaar

Pewter_of_Deodar
10-13-2004, 08:28 PM
From what I have heard, things made with white grapes take a long time to clear naturally, so I do not believe that slow clearing is a sign of a problem.

Jmattioli
10-13-2004, 08:36 PM
Lyle,
After reading your notes. You may find that if your initial juice was 1.150 and you added the Clover and buckwheat and tupelo later to approximately 4 gallon, your calculations are in error. Your honey added about .045 to the SG. It would have stopped at about 1.005 without the honey but with the honey right about 1.050. You got about 18% alcohol now by my calulations.
Juice 1.150
Honey .045
------
1.195 Man you got some high octane stuff.
They did not lie. With proper nutrients K1V will do 18% and I believe you got it.
Joe

lbaker
10-13-2004, 08:48 PM
Joe:

I mixed the honey with water so that the honey/water mixture was 1.150, then added that to the fermenting wine. That shouldn't raise the effective starting gravity. I simply added additional volume, with the same gravity as the original mixture.

Oskaar:

The link contained the recipe and notes.
( http://www.moremead.com/mead_logs/20040825_IcePyment.htm )

Lyle

Jmattioli
10-13-2004, 08:53 PM
Ok , I see what you did. Add nutrients and it should kick back off if your 1.150 is accurate. Oskaar just made a cyser with K!V and it will go to 18%. My experience is the same but unless your water is extremely hard you may need nutrients with magnesium in. Epsom salt. K1V is an effective restarter also like ec-1118
Joe

lbaker
10-13-2004, 09:04 PM
I never realized that Epsom Salt was ingestable (but I see from a web search that it is). Any idea on the amount of nutrient / Epsom Salt that I might want to try per gallon? I have a 3 gallon carboy and a 1 gallon jug for toping off, so I'll probably experiment with the 1 gallon jug first.

Thanks

Lyle

Jmattioli
10-13-2004, 09:05 PM
Just a pinch will do it. 1/8 t will be fine for 1 gallon. Thats all it takes
Joe
PS Fermax already has it in if you have fermax.

Jmattioli
10-13-2004, 09:21 PM
Worse case, pitch a pack of EC-1118 and a bit of nutrients if it doesn't start back up. I have no idea if the ice pyment mix has some unfermentable sugar in it. But if your SG reading was correct (only correct at about 60F temp) and you added the honey as you said then it definitely stopped prematurely cause K1V will go all the way. When mine stuck, the 1/8t Epsom salt got it restarted.
Joe

Oskaar
10-13-2004, 09:38 PM
I've got that really hard water where I live to the point of where I have to take the Lime-Away or CLR to the faucets and shower heads at least three or four times a year. We've also got chlorine, but I generally heat my water up to a little over 100 degrees F and let it evaporate the chlorine out.

I think Joe has it right Lyle. Sorry I didn't see the link on your post and follow it. :-[

My cyser is going to be some powerful stuff as Joe has mentioned and the K1V is the beast that got it there. After initial fermentation I goosed it with some more apple cider to top it off and the K1V got to convert more sugar.

I think adding some nutrient like Joe mentioned should help it go. I've never really added Epson Salts (just mostly soak my feet in it) but hey, Joe has done this several times with great success so I'd go for it.

Oskaar

lbaker
10-14-2004, 07:57 PM
Well, I added some fermax last night, and as of this morning, no signs of fermentation restarting. I'll give it till this evening, and if it's still not doing anything, I think I'll mix up a K1V starter, slowly raise it's alcohol, then when it's going good, add that to the must. Maybe that will kick this thing loose.

Lyle

lbaker
10-21-2004, 08:40 PM
Well, I've tried just about everything I can think of, and only one thing has seem to have any effect at all, and it's a very minor effect. Fermax didn't help, pitching a good starter didn't help, raising the temp a few degrees didn't help... so the last thing I tried was adding a little acid blend in case there was a major ph problem. After a couple of days, I've got a VERY minor ferment going in the 1 gallon jug, but no signs of anything in the 3 gallon carboy. And when I say minor, I mean minor. If you watch real close for a long time, you might see one tiny bubble floating towards the top of the jug. There are a few bubbles floating on the top, so, it's doing something, just not very much :(.

So, since it appears all else HAS failed :-/, I decided to brew up a very dry straight mead to use as a mixer. I used 2 lbs of Blackberry Honey, 4 times the honey volume of water, a little fermax, and another package of K1V-1116. Total volume is a little under 1 gallon. When it starts slowing down, I'll rack the 3 gallon and 1 gallon jugs into a new 5 gallon carboy and let it all age together. Hopefully this will be enough volume to get the entire batch down to about 1.04 (or at least 1.05), which should be ok for an IceWine Pyment (the current 1.07 is just toooooo sweet!).

Lyle

Jmattioli
10-21-2004, 09:21 PM
Lyle,
More likely PH is too low and needs bicarbonate. Use a PH strip. K!V simply will go further than the 80 points drop you reported. After trying everything else the only thing left is PH
Joe

lbaker
10-22-2004, 12:18 AM
I'll have to see if I can make it down to the local HBS this weekend and pick up a test kit... Do you know what range the PH should be in?

Lyle

Jmattioli
10-22-2004, 02:59 AM
No lower than 3.5 would be nice. 3.7 to 4.0 is ideal.
Reference :

http://brewery.org/brewery/library/Meadx.html

Joe

lbaker
10-23-2004, 05:01 AM
I was able to make it by the HBS today, and picked up some PH Test Paper, and some calcium carbonate. I measured the PH and according to the color match chart, it was at 3.4. I added a tiny amount of the calcium carbonate to each jug, and immediately, I started getting some bubbles. I figured that was just some CO2 outgassing because of the particles I added, but 6 hours later, it's still bubbling. Now at this rate, it's not going to win any races, but as long as it finishes, I'll be tickled pink!

Assuming nothing changes in the next few days, the dry straight mead I started as a mixer may just turn into a Blackberry Melomel. I used blackberry honey, and there is just enough room in the jug for some blackberries I have in the freezer.

Thanks everyone for the assistance...

Lyle

Oh, as an FYI: The HBS has what appears to be an old, but official, chart from Lalvin that says K1V-1116 only does 12% - 14% ABV. But, the rest of the literature in the store says 18%. Since it appears that fermentation has started back up, I'm betting on 18% being right.

Jmattioli
10-24-2004, 08:07 AM
Hi Lyle,
The latest info from Lalvin on K1 V is 18%
Ref:

http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/refchart.html

In the past they did have 12-14 on the chart but I am certain that is an error as many of us have exceeded those numbers.
Joe