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WikdWaze
09-11-2004, 06:10 PM
According to the Georgia state code, mead does not exist. It is not a malt beverage. Even a braggot is not a malt beverage since it contains more than 6% alcohol. The code specifically defines a malt beverage as any drink obtained by the fermentation of barley, malt, or other such product and containing no more than 6% alcohol by volume. Mead is also not a wine. The code defines wine as any drink obtained by the fermentation of fruit, berries, or grapes and not containing more than 21% alcohol. It is definitely an alcoholic beverage, but it doesn't fit any of the categories they outline. I'm wondering how they sort out the taxation on it. I'm thinking that a good lawyer could keep a meadery from paying taxes since the code does not allow for taxation of the product. Sales tax would still apply, but none of the other taxes would. I wouldn't test this theory without seeking legal counsel first, but it is an interesting possibility. I love it when they get too specific with wording a law ;D

Jmattioli
09-11-2004, 08:02 PM
Sorry wikdwaze,
Good try. But no way. Mead still comes under the general category of alcoholic beverage in Georgia even though it doesn't fit under wine or malt beverages or distilled spirits.
GA 3-3-1.
The businesses of manufacturing, distributing, selling, handling, and otherwise dealing in or possessing alcoholic beverages are declared to be privileges in this state and not rights; however, such privileges shall not be exercised except in accordance with the licensing, regulatory, and revenue requirements of this title.
Joe

P.S. In fact your law in Ga only allows you to make 50 gallons of homebrew per household. Federal allowance is 200 gallons for 2 people in household.

WikdWaze
09-12-2004, 10:19 AM
I know it's still an alcoholic beverage and all the general laws regarding such drinks still apply. But there is no provision in the code anywhere for taxing it. They spell out the taxes for wine, beer, cider, and distilled spirits, but all those categories exclude mead completely the way they're defined. Beer is taxed at $.045 per 12oz, table wine is taxed at $.11 per liter, dessert wine is taxed at $.27 per liter. I didn't look at the distilled spirits section to see what the tax was. By the definitions given, mead is excluded from all categories. There is no tax based just on alcoholic beverages. Cider is treated as a malt beverage, but that still excludes even a cyser because of the alcohol content. They defined things too narrowly for their own good.

The 50 gallon limit is for beer, you can make 200 gallons of wine still. That makes a lot of sense, only 50 gallons of 6% ABV beer, but 200 gallons of 14% ABV wine.

dogglebe
09-12-2004, 11:11 PM
According to New York State laws, mead is a wine (your mileage may vary). Breweries cannot make a mead without a winery license. I imagine that taxing mead is done very similarly to that of wine.


Phil

WikdWaze
09-13-2004, 01:56 AM
Heh, the feds know what mead is too. Guess I'm lucky to live in a backwater state ;D

Oskaar
09-13-2004, 05:36 AM
Trust me dude, people in every state have tried just about every way to get past the booze regulation laws. They've about seen it all, and found ways to deal with it in court.

Best idea is to keep a low profile, get an ABC permit to sell or produce and go for it.

Oskaar

WikdWaze
09-13-2004, 11:30 AM
Trust me dude, people in every state have tried just about every way to get past the booze regulation laws. They've about seen it all, and found ways to deal with it in court.

Best idea is to keep a low profile, get an ABC permit to sell or produce and go for it.

OskaarThat's what I plan to do, eventually. But if I don't have to deal with all the taxes, that's a nice bonus. Remember, I'm not trying to get "around" any laws. I'll still follow each and every bit of the code that covers mead ;)

Oskaar
09-13-2004, 12:00 PM
You'll find that if you don't search out tax liabilities (that is your business tax responsibilities) they will seek you out at the most inopportune moment possible.

Bottom line, if you're in business and you're feeling smarter than the government because you're skipping some taxes on a "loophole" you'll learn how serious it can get the hard way.

Don't let bravado cloud your judgement.

Oskaar

WikdWaze
09-13-2004, 02:26 PM
You'll find that if you don't search out tax liabilities (that is your business tax responsibilities) they will seek you out at the most inopportune moment possible.

Bottom line, if you're in business and you're feeling smarter than the government because you're skipping some taxes on a "loophole" you'll learn how serious it can get the hard way.

Don't let bravado cloud your judgement.

OskaarBravado? Me? :-[ I wouldn't do anything of the sort before consulting with an attorney to make sure.

But I cannot see how they can tax something without having a law to allow them. They can't tax Pepsi. I know that's not an alcoholic drink, but they don't have an "alcoholic beverage" tax, they only have taxes on certain, clearly defined, liquids. With all the other thousands of dollars I'd have to pay to go commercial, you bet I wanna save as much as I can. If they consider mead a dessert wine, that's $.27/liter I have to pay the state.

Jmattioli
09-13-2004, 06:04 PM
With all the other thousands of dollars I'd have to pay to go commercial, you bet I wanna save as much as I can. If they consider mead a dessert wine, that's $.27/liter I have to pay the state.
My friend, You are getting light years ahead of yourself here.
Joe

ScottS
09-13-2004, 06:32 PM
Remember, I'm not trying to get "around" any laws. I'll still follow each and every bit of the code that covers mead ;)

Do not ever forget that the ATF (actually their successors, different name, same jack-booted thugs) is not a nice organization. You are guilty until proven innocent, your freedom, money, and other assets are theirs until they decide you can have it back. Laws and regulations are nice, but they've had a lot more experience twisting them to meet their goals than you have.

Don't just consult an attorney, talk to the ATF and find out exactly what they want you to do. Follow their rules, even if you don't find what they tell you explicitly in the laws. They have the power, given that you pay the extortionist licensing fees and taxes, they will leave you alone.

Remember, they've got you outgunned. By ALOT.

WikdWaze
09-14-2004, 01:40 AM
My friend, You are getting light years ahead of yourself here.
Joe
I know ;D

Don't worry, I'm not going commercial for years yet. I just like to think ahead. I have 6 recipes to perfect before I seriously think about selling mead. Plus I have to wait till I have the finances. It'd cost $6,000 just for the state licenses and bond, plus whatever the feds want. As a producer, I'd have to deliver the product to the wholesalers in trucks that I own or lease, there's quite a bit of cash involved in that.

Talon
09-14-2004, 08:33 PM
Or you could join a partner... *grins* Like me... lol.
I too eventually want to get my own meadery. However, it's set after my current 10 year plan, of which I have 9.5 years left to go... And I too have recipes that I must perfect.

Ultimately, I want mine to be a rather "small" meadery where I do everything manually as that's where I truly get my enjoyment out of making mead. Truly I give away more than I actually drink. Unfortunately I have to as I've high blood pressure and can't drink alcohol with my medications... What the doctor doesn't know won't hurt me... Much...

WikdWaze
09-15-2004, 02:44 AM
Or you could join a partner... *grins* Like me... lol.
I too eventually want to get my own meadery. However, it's set after my current 10 year plan, of which I have 9.5 years left to go... And I too have recipes that I must perfect.

Ultimately, I want mine to be a rather "small" meadery where I do everything manually as that's where I truly get my enjoyment out of making mead. Truly I give away more than I actually drink. Unfortunately I have to as I've high blood pressure and can't drink alcohol with my medications... What the doctor doesn't know won't hurt me... Much...
That's the spirit, ya gotta die o' somethin' ;D

Derf
09-16-2004, 07:51 PM
Don't worry, I'm not going commercial for years yet.

At this rate, I don't think you are even going to start a recipe for years yet. Or have you started it by now? All this talk does little to perfect the recipes you've never tried.

WikdWaze
09-17-2004, 01:54 AM
At this rate, I don't think you are even going to start a recipe for years yet. Or have you started it by now? All this talk does little to perfect the recipes you've never tried.

;DI'm getting the stuff for the blowoff tubes this weekend. I'll order the yeast next week ;D