View Full Version : Dell outsources another bunch of jobs -- and leaves my best friend hanging

03-24-2006, 02:44 PM
Hi all,

Just got a call from Elizabeth Moore, my best friend. She's been with Dell for 10 years, and just last year moved to Montana and Dell let her work for a contractor of theirs so she could work remote. So, today, 6 months to the day from when she started the outsource, they dumped her. Just called and said, 'You're done, we're outsourcing your job to India'.

Needless to say, she's freaking. And getting drunk just now.

For me, hell will freeze over before Dell ever gets another purchase from me. Its bad enough when they outsource to India, but now its personal. She gave them 10 years of loyal service, and they dumped her without even letting her complete the day. Dell can kiss my a**.

I need all y'all that are in the tech world to keep your eyes open. Elizabeth is a crack web designer, she's been writing the sale pages for Dell Online for more than 3 years. If you know of *anything* out there, either non-locational or somewhere near Great Falls, Montana, please let her know at eemoore@3riversdbs.net. If you'd like a copy of her resume, email her and ask for one. Tell her you're a GM'er, I've told her I would be posting this.

Thanks for your help. Elizabeth has been a great friend for many years, and I want to help her any way I can.

Vicky - wanting to firebomb Dell headquarters about now.....

03-24-2006, 03:20 PM
I bought my very first Dell in January and if I kenw that everytime I had a problem or question I would be speaking to someone in India I would have never bought my pc from them. The other week I got my last statement from them and decided I would close my credit account. After speaking to 5 people in India I finally got a girl in Texas and I told here that I would not buy another Dell or even recommend them to anyone. She asked why and I told her becuase of the outsourceing and she hung up on me.

03-24-2006, 03:53 PM

The outsourcing really has gotten out of hand. All the major companies are doing it. Call customer service for HP computers, J. C. Penney, and the list goes on and you will be talking to someone in India. Even the company I worked for now outsources to India for reservations. I was lucky and retired after 33 years, but many friends that did not have the age or time had to hit the streets.

It seems the government feels this is good for the economy so they are not going to do anything about it. All the good US paying jobs are now going overseas and mainly India.
There was a segment on (I think) 60 minutes showing how a lot of tech people are going to India to work. Sad state of affairs.

When I call customer service or tech support, for any company, the first thing I ask is where they are located and if in India, I ask if it is possible to talk to someone in the US.

Best of luck in your friend finding another job in her field.


03-24-2006, 10:27 PM
Unfortunately it's nothing new. Companies have been doing it for years though the trend seems to be growing. My friend was cut from Owens Corning (Nearly 12 years ago now), just to be rehired though a temp agency to do the same job. Less pay, fewer or no benefits for the same job. Now they've just figured they can do it even cheaper in another country.


03-24-2006, 10:52 PM
No, its nothing new, and our government sees no problem with this, for some reason. I wonder if they will when our economy starts to collapse because no one here can get a job that pays enough for us to afford to go to a job, 'cause all the paying jobs have been outsourced.

The way I see it, if they like it in India so much, fine. Let 'em sell their computers there. I won't be buying them, and I'll do my best to convince others to vote with their dollars too.

Vicky - I wonder if Ritesh/Bob at Dell support can *afford* a Dell computer?

03-24-2006, 11:28 PM

Hate to say I told ya so... ;) I seem to recall telling you I refused to support Dell as soon as I found out they were using non standard components (limiting their customers ability to upgrade from a Non-Dell source) that told me all I needed to know about the company's business practices. I believe the year was 1990, and am happy to say I never supported them or recommended them to anybody.


03-25-2006, 08:58 AM
Strangely though, at my day job (Civil Engineering) the state government says we aren't allowed to outsource out of the country. At least for jobs we are doing for the state.

But you're right. In general they see no problem with outsourcing everything. I sure there are some companies here now that are no more than a warehouse with all manufacturing, design and support elsewhere.

Of course when a foreign worker comes here and wants to do a job that no one else wants to do the government gets all bent out of shape. Even the local government is getting in on this one. Several times a week now the sherrif is on the news saying how big a problem it is and how it's going to trash the local economy.


03-25-2006, 10:31 AM
Outsourcing IT jobs is only one more step in the changing global economy. We've been losing blue collar union jobs for years. Union workers with little education and very specific job skills have seen their jobs replaced by technology and outsourcing but the result is a leaner and more efficient workforce. Union agreements have resulted in health care and pension packages that companies can no longer afford if they wish to remain competitive.

Due to layoffs and attrition, union membership in this country has fallen dramatically but many of the children of these same union employees are now better educated with marketable job skills and working in different fields.

A Jan. 30 report in the Wall Street Journal illustrates how this works, using the case of a computer mouse manufacturer called Logitech. It sells a wireless mouse called Wanda for about $40 that is assembled in China. Of the $40, China gets only $3. The rest goes to suppliers, many based in America, which make components for the mouse, and to domestic retailers. The biggest component of Logitech's cost is its marketing department based in Fremont, California, where the staff of 450 Americans makes far more than the 4,000 Chinese who actually manufacture the product.

Those 450 Americans, making good wages in California, might not have jobs at all if Logitech wasn't able to stay competitive by outsourcing some of its costs. Studies have also shown that workers displaced by outsourcing are often retrained for better jobs within the companies doing the outsourcing. Cisco, for example, is a leader in outsourcing, but has not reduced the number of its domestic employees because they have been redeployed into other areas, doing higher value-added work. These jobs often pay better than those that were outsourced.

It's worth noting that the U.S. is not the only country where outsourcing is happening. British and Australian companies are also outsourcing to India, while European companies are outsourcing to the Czech Republic and other formerly communist countries, where wages are low but education levels are high.

There are many well paying jobs available in the US that would be difficult, if not impossible, to outsource. The US is still among the top of the pack in the health care field. I know this is little solace to those who have lost careers and seen their lives disrupted but most do have the ability to change directions in life, even if it's a 180-degree turn.

Are we better off today than we were a generation ago? Many would argue that we are not. The reality of today's economy is that jobs can be outsourced will, or else the ability of companies to compete in a global economy will will suffer.

I know feelings run high in this matter, and I almost bit my tongue and didn't hit the reply button. I fully expect rebuttals, and even a flame or two, but I understand, given the volatile nature of the topic.

03-25-2006, 11:20 AM
Hey Dude,

I doubt that you'll see any flames on this subject. People will have differing viewpoints and such, that's the way of subjects like this. Flames will be deleted and flamers will be dealt with harshly.

That being said, I see both sides of the issue. I used to work for a company that provided outsourcing of IT departments within City and County Government offices. Essentially we took over the operation and hired the staff onsite, converted them to our employees, and re-trained them in the style and culture of our company. We were still able to pull a handsome profit within the confines of their salary and benefits, as well as the monthly service contracts and new equipment purchases. We structured the contract to provide us some wiggle room in creativity and bulk purchases of Technology at a low price which we were able to pass through to our customer who had signed an agreement to purchase from us as sole source.

It worked out well. In every case we were brought in to reduce payroll, benefit and operating overhead expenses; deal with troublesome employees who were in a collective bargaining unit, and provide scale of economy because our employees had better and more up to date training in technology. In many cases we were initially contacted because of the poor response times and ineffective support provided by the onsite staff. If they fought the outsourcing it just made it happen quicker because the perception was that they were never going to change their evil ways and provide better service.

I don't really have a problem with a company making a strategic decision to outsource where it makes sense, especially when it comes to administrative overhead. I think the line is getting a bit blurred in some cases because the manner and method of outsourcing, along with communication, cultural and social issues (people in different countries with no concept of our culture and how urgent issues are dealt with here, etc.)

Anyhow, where it makes sense outsourcing is a great tool to scale down overhead and personnel costs. In many cases is comes back to bite you in the ass with issues of support, quality, communication skills and overall company perception in the market space.



03-26-2006, 09:02 PM
I can understand the economic changes that drive the outsourcing marketplace. I was also an 'outsource' for several government positions, and Oskaar and I were talking earlier this evening about how that got done because the jobs weren't getting *done* with in-house government personnel, so they outsourced. I did this at EPA and CDC both.

What burns my ass is that they do this to cut costs, ok. But then they claim all over their ads that they have 'top service and support', when in reality the quality has gone completely into the toilet. Dell started out as one guys' answer to 'Big Box' computer companies like IBM, Compaq and Hewlett Packard. Oddly, Compaq was started by a couple of guys for much the same reasons. And they both made excellent products, until they *became* what they were begun to refute. Now, Compaq's boxes, which were once so innovative are crappy, off-shore boxes that no one will buy because the reliability is bad, and their tech support is worse. So they got bought. Now, Dell is still making reasonably-well running boxes, but they've turned their tech support, their sales, and now their online marketing efforts into crap. Soon, the rest will follow, and they'll go the way of Compaq.

Lets hope another Michael Dell or Steve Jobs will come along and re-revolutionize the market, and let us transfer our loyalty to the next up-and-comer.

Yeah, I ranted in my first email, but I've had too many friends who've been replaced by people who don't have half the training and experience they did. I was in Flint, MI when GM killed the city by relocating 12 plants to Mexico. You have *no* idea it is to see unemployment go from 10% to nearly 50% in your town almost *overnight*. There was rioting.

I was here in NC when the textile industry that supported nearly half the residents of the state went to China, causing a large number of people to suddenly find themselves in an area that couldn't support *any* of them. I was here when my area lost 80,000 high-tech jobs to outsourcing, and people like myself suddenly discovered that jobs we'd been doing for nearly 20 years were now only worth $12.50/hour. In an area where rent averages $800 a month, and a *starter* home within driving distance of the jobs is $160,000. Those of you in CA know what I'm talking about.

I'm no fan of unions. I left Michigan and miss them not a jot. But I've seen outsourcing ruin a lot of lives, and I've friends with Ph.Ds working at McDonalds.

So, we're supposed to go to school, graduate, get years of debt going to college, get out, get 20 years of experience, only to find out that our US-based job can be replaced by a 20-something who can't even speak English?

I guess my question is: OK. So, at 40-something, when I can't find a job that pays enough to make the mortgage in the only field I've ever known, now I'm supposed to go *back* to college, learn another field altogether, and maybe graduate by the time I have grandchildren, so Dell (insert outsourcing company name here) can make a buck?

Sorry guys, but, y'know? That *sucks*.

Sigmund Von Meader
03-27-2006, 03:24 PM
Shalom Vickie!

I am so sorry to hear about your friend. I hope that she will soon find herself in a better situation. Where does this saying come from? "Living well is the best revenge." One must live well. But how to live well?

You are only in your forties? Ach, that is yet so young. You will see!

So much has changed, but maybe for the better. Now, age 50 is the new stage. Second adulthood! So much more yet to be seen!

Now, Dell computers. They let her go with no warning? This is such a shandeh. No compassion or loyalty. What is the saying in the USA? "What goes around comes around." This will come back on them. You will see!

A gezunt ahf dein shaychar dvash!

My two batches of Ancient Orange are popping hard. I hope the air locks will slow soon so I can rack it. I can hardly wait!

03-30-2006, 03:19 AM
Please forgive the verbalage but.... It's the go*@#$ned free trade agreements that started with Clinton and continued with Bush! Those a$$ho!e$ are fattening their pockets and shoving Americans onto the streets! It is good for the economy! Their f@#$ing economy! The rich are just f@$&ing the poor working class more and more! My younger brother is A+ and Network+ certified and now they say that is not enough to even repair PCs! That is because those that have higher qulifications cannot get jobs in what they want so they take the lesser ones! I do not blame them I blame the f@#$ing rich and politicians! Now they are wanting to let illegal aliens (who should not even be here to begin with) spend resident fees on college tuitions! They are also giving illegals tax breaks free medical for their kids, giving businesses extra money for hiring them and money for food if they do not want to work! And while they are doing this, they are raising the taxes of those who were born here! Enough is enough! bring the jobs back here! Kick the illegals out and send them back where they came from! That will staighten out the economy! And people want to completely outlaw cigarettes and guns that is going to hurt the American economy even further and raise the unemployment rate worse than the 1920s. Those gun grabbers do not know what violence is, but if a great depression happens again, they will see what real violent times are like. Just like the 1920s, also known as "The Roaring Twenties."

may the gods grant you great brews,