Can ingredients be added after primary fermentation has begun?

Ghost99 · Nov 8, 2015

Hi Folks,

we started a small 2 gallon batch of Traditional yesterday with clover honey and EC-1118. Our plan had been to add some raspberries and other basic ingredients after racking to secondary, but we were wondering if it would be too late to re-open our primary (food grade pail with airlock) and add some ingredients now? Or would this be too disruptive?

I would say the batch is about 18 hours old, and we're getting a bubble about once every 5-10 seconds.

Any thoughts?

Thanks so much!

Stasis · Nov 8, 2015

You can. If you want to be absolutely sure you could post the recipe and method for feedback. Make sure you followed good practice in aeration and nutrient additions and you should usually be ok

Ghost99 · Nov 8, 2015

Ok then, well here goes!

-Sanitized all equipment in a mild bleach solution for 15 mins and rinsed thoroughly.
-We added 4.5 lbs of clover honey to 2 gallons of spring water (some of it heated to get the must to around 80 degrees F.)
-Added 1 teaspoon of Fermaid k to the must and mixed it all up.
-Stirred in 1.3 teaspoons of Go Ferm to roughly 5oz of water at 110 degrees F in a separate bowl, when it cooled to 104 degrees we added 5 grams of EC-118 and without stirring, let it sit for 15 mins.
-pitched the yeast into the must (must was roughly 80 degrees F at the time) and sloshed vigorously for about 10 minutes. (Big 'oops' moment here is we forgot to stir the yeast and go ferm together before pitching, but figured vigorously agitating it with the must would hopefully rectify that?)
-Sealed it all with the plastic lid, bung and airlock. Placed the primary in a fairly cool room where the temp is hovering around 60 degrees F. It was starting to bubble periodically within about 6 hours.

OG was: 1.072

What we'd like to add:

-4.5 lbs of raspberries
-juice from one lemon
-juice from one lime
-3 tablespoons of black tea

Sorry if this info isn't formatted correctly as this is my first attempt at meadmaking! Hope this is all clear! The only part of the process that gave us concern is after 15 mins, the yeast and go ferm hadn't really shown much activity in the bowl other than the yeast kind of expanding a bit. It didn't seem very lively before it was pitched.

Anyway, thanks for taking a look and hopefully we can still add some fruit or other ingredients without disrupting the fermentation.

Cheers!

Stasis · Nov 8, 2015

This info is better than most so good going. I wouldn't add the juice from limes or lemons since acidity in primary could be a problem. You could add that in secondary only if acidity isn't balanced (I never needed more acid in meads personally). Ideally fermaid k should only be added after the yeast lag phase (when it started to bubble periodically). You should agitate/ shake this mead for the first 3 days or until the 1/3 sugar break to aerate the must. Hopefully ec-1118 is a hardy yeast and any minor mistakes won't be much of a problem.
Adding the other fruit could only be a problem if they contain preservatives
P.s after these additions it won't technically be a traditional anymore, of course.
Goodluck!

Squatchy · Nov 8, 2015

You might do your yeast a favor and put it into a little warmer room until it takes off in earnest. Air bubbles per a time metric isn't a great way to tell whats going on. But if your lid is tight and not leaking any air that seems like it's bubbling pretty slowly.
Personally I just set the lid on loosely for the first week or so. I aerate it twice a day until I get to about 40% of where I think it will end up and then switch over to just stirring. You want to keep your yeast in suspension for a few weeks. After you add your fruits you might want to rack it off the fruit around 2 weeks. Not 2 weeks if you add it to primary. But 2 weeks after you add what you want to add into secondary.

Ghost99 · Nov 8, 2015

Great tips guys, thanks very much.

So is it better to NOT use a lid and airlock during primary then? And continue to shake it up (then transition to just stirring), once per day until you rack to secondary?

PapaScout · Nov 8, 2015

There is so much CO2 given off during primary that the positive gas pressure keeps it from being contaminated by airborne spores. Keep the lid on at least loosely to discourage fruits flies and such from finding your new mead and getting "involved" in your experiment. My primaries are always 6.5 gallon carboys and I use a paper towel held in place with a rubber band over the first two weeks. After that I put an airlock in place.

ETA: Sorry, yes - add whatever you want during the first few days in primary.

Ghost99 · Nov 8, 2015

Thanks everyone! I've removed the lid and given it another good thrashing with a sanitized spoon. I'll just set the lid on lightly for the next week or so to make it easier to do this each day.

I was wondering about some Stasis said: "I wouldn't add the juice from limes or lemons since acidity in primary could be a problem. You could add that in secondary only if acidity isn't balanced (I never needed more acid in meads personally). "

This is an extreme newbie question but how does one find out if the acidity isn't balanced? I've gone through the newbie page with all the info on getting started but haven't found much on this topic, and I'm fascinated! Any good info on how to educate oneself on why this is important, how to check for it, and what to do about it?

Thanks again!

PapaScout · Nov 8, 2015

They sell PH meters to check the balance between base and acid. I bought one for $60 and have used it twice in 2 years. Meh. Wish I had that $60 back in honey instead for all the good it's done me.

Stasis · Nov 9, 2015

Ghost99 said:
This is an extreme newbie question but how does one find out if the acidity isn't balanced? I've gone through the newbie page with all the info on getting started but haven't found much on this topic, and I'm fascinated! Any good info on how to educate oneself on why this is important, how to check for it, and what to do about it?

I'm still rather new to balancing flavours in the finished product and I'm only playing with oak at the moment. Like I said, I never seem to have needed more acidity. When the time comes I will have to do some minor research about it myself.
However, I do know that acidity does reduce sweetness perception. I also know that some acidity is beneficial for aging. If I were to make a mead that tastes a bit too sweet for me (which doesn't take much since I like my meads bone dry) I might try increasing acidity after confirming the ph level. Aging changes acidity and sweetness perception so I'd only do this after a long time of aging.

Ghost99 · Nov 10, 2015

Thanks for the info guys,

After a couple days(and removing the lid and letting it just sit on the top to keep the fruit flies etc. out) there seemed to be a pretty good fermentation going on I think. About an inch of hardy foam on the top and active bubbling underneath that layer. We went ahead and added a 1 1/2 pounds of fresh raspberries (after freezing them and then letting them thaw back out to room temperature) and 3 tablespoons of strong black brewed tea. Hope this didn't mess things up too badly!

Cheers

Squatchy · Nov 10, 2015

I think a good rule of thumb is to never add anything unless you need it. Citric acid up front makes it easier for the yeast to drop below a 3. That is too low and will stall out a fermentation. I hate how chemical acid blends taste! I have found adding orange yest works well. I think you could add cranberry to if the color doesn't detract. I made a tincture with vodka and sage brush. I have tried it several times and it does the trick as well. For me anyway.

Ghost99 · Nov 11, 2015

Ok, so an update: Originally, we were getting about 1 bubble every 5-10 seconds in the airlock (before adding the raspberries). On day 1, we added raspberries and some black tea, and started aerating it twice per day. This morning we replaced the airlock and lid to see what type of activity we'd get, and it's a quick blast of about 8 bubbles every 15 seconds or so. Is this slow activity? Is it possible we've messed something up? I'll probably wait at least a full week before taking a gravity reading.

Farmboyc · Nov 11, 2015

I wouldn't worry about it too much. If it is releasing gas after an addition and daily de-gasing/aerating I would say you are still fermenting.
With an OG 0f 1.072 using EC 1118 you could well be near the end of primary fermentation. Would need a gravity to be sure but leaving it for a week before taking a reading should be s non-issue.

Ghost99 · Nov 12, 2015

Thanks for all the helpful replies so far folks.

I realize we made a pretty serious mistake when adding the raspberries...didn't take a gravity reading at that time

.

I'd have to say that initial 1.072 is pretty much out the door now!

Ghost99 · Nov 16, 2015

Ok, so I took a gravity reading exactly one week after starting primary and it's at exactly 1.000. It's bubbling about once every 15-20 seconds. Would this be a good time to rack into the carboy?

Farmboyc · Nov 16, 2015

I would think so. I would rack to the carboy then forget about it for a month.

kudapucat · Nov 16, 2015

Yep. You want as little headspace as possible in secondary.
How does it taste?

Ghost99 · Nov 17, 2015

It tastes pretty decent at this point I'd say. A dry fermented raspberry taste with a mild honey presence, very little sweetness, but pleasent even at this stage (and we were trying to create a dry mead)

Here's the problem though...

My wife and I had our first attempt at racking from the primary and it was an unmitigated disaster! Had a heck of a time getting a siphon going (definitely need an auto siphon) and ended up snapping the curved end off the racking cane!...finally made it work, and got two gallon carboys filled, but since we agitated the mixture so badly while we were bumbling around, we kicked up quite a bit of the lees and we've already got a good half inch of sediment in the bottom of the gallon carboys, and about a quarter inch of raspberry bits floating on the top. Oh well, chalk it up to very clumsy first timers.
With the airlocks fixed they still both seem to be fermenting though: a bubble about every 2 mins on both and you can see a lot of activity in the actual mead itself. We're kind of wondering if this batch is a loss considering it feels like we must have got a lot of oxygen in it during the transfer, and it carried over much of the dead yeast.

Would it be worth letting it be? Racking it again in a couple days? Tossing it?

Sorry to be such a newbie.

Ghost99 · Nov 25, 2015

Hey guys,

so update on this one:

It took us awhile to acquire an auto siphon which led to our batch sitting on it's lees for about another 2 weeks. I finally got the siphon today and sanitized it. However, after removing the airlock to rack it again (to get it off the lees and discard the excess raspberry bits that we inherited from primary), I noticed it had a pretty unappealing odour. It was definitely not a 'nice' smell, and smelled pretty strongly of yeast. I went ahead and racked it anyway, having to top it up slightly with some water since I had to leave a bit of it in the old gallon jugs to not take the lees and didn't want the excess air.

Also, took a reading and it had dropped all the way down to .092! So I'm guessing this batch is a throwaway at this point? Interestingly enough, despite the grody smell, it actually doesn't taste that bad. Definitely not something I'd serve to friends, but the lemon/lime added a nice bit of 'bite' to it and it still had some faint raspberry undertones. Anyway..thoughts as to what went wrong? I'd like to retry this one again as I'd really like a nice raspberry mead.

Cheers!

Can ingredients be added after primary fermentation has begun?

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