FerndalePalooza!30% Off Pairing Mead and Food!
Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 789
Results 161 to 172 of 172
  1. #161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by smoutela View Post
    FWIW, TOSNA was updated a few months ago on the MMR site now using more realistic YAN requirement levels, even further tailored by yeast strain.

    I have been using the TOSNA 2.0 close to a year now at the meadery with great success. Before, our fermentations where ripping along at high activity even at 14% abv mark. We would need to cold crash our tanks to halt it.

    TOSNA 2.0 has shown immediately noticeable results to the effect that our fermentations are now coming to a nice slow and steady finish. I believe the dosage rates are now pretty dialed in to the point to more realistic addition rates based on more precise numbers.

    Also, STASIS, great find on the research pertaining to proline and the theory as to how it might be the underlining reason with how Fermaid-O works so well while (technically on paper) it underfeeds the yeast. Super interesting that I will most certainly be spending a good amount of time starting to look into.

    I wish I had more time to log in and be more active here in GM to have been more a part of the overall conversation, but this has been one of the best threads I've seen in years here.

    I, in no way shape or form, fall into the (respectively) "bio-nerd" classification, but you all who are and have shared the workings behind the scenes of what is really going on here is amazing. Kudos to you all.

    As a final note, if there is a specific experimentation you could collaborate with deciding on that you would like me to conduct, please do let me know.
    Thanks for stopping by. I joined the AMMA hoping to find this sort of discussions. I wish more of you top shelf pro's could spend more time with us over hear. I think this is the best forum for sure for all things a mazing LOL

    Please let us know what you find in regards to proline.
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

  2. Default

    First off, I'm a Noob and/or NewBee. I'm talking haven't completely finished my first BOMM yet.
    But I lurk here quite a bit, and do enjoy reading the topics discussed here. I believe there is a great bit of knowledge to be had by doing so.
    I've just read though the 161 posts in this thread and I can say, some of it was a bit beyond me. About the point that you were talking about moving the thread to the patron's forum, I damn near gave up on it, but I'm glad I did not, it lead me to post 159.
    This kind of brought it together for me, and made it more understandable, at least to a simple man like me.
    Just wanted to say Thanks.

  3. #163

    Default

    I have recently googled Fermaid O and looked into a pdf by Lallemande. It was the very top Lallemande result in google. It seems they have officially updated their info about Fermaid O. We had mention of this information in the past but it was just a scathing mention and when contacted Lallemande were very quiet about it. The pdf can be found here http://catalogapp.lallemandwine.com/...6d74842ad4.pdf and the information on the pdf reads:

    "Actual YAN verses ‘YAN Equivalent’ requires a special mention.
    • Actual YAN is how much Yeast Assimilable Nitrogen is present in the product (mg/g) or present for a given dose of a
    product mg/L. A 20g/hL dose of Fermaid O provides 8.6mg/L of YAN.
    • In many trials it has been demonstrated that ‘organic’ YAN is approximately 2.5 times more efficient than inorganic
    YAN on a per mg basis. Given this, many suppliers quote a YAN equivalent. Hence a 20g/hL dose of Fermaid O has a
    YAN equivalent (to inorganic) of 24mg/L. This concept needs to be linked to a defined method of evaluation: using a
    MS70 synthetic medium with reference yeast and a 40 g / hL NH4
    + addition compared to various concentrations of the
    product to be evaluated and then measuring their effect on dCO2/dt before it is a value / concept that can be used to
    compare products.
    Circumstances such as fruit quality, variety, winemaking practice, must parameters, yeast nutrient demand and cellar
    conditions are infinitely variable and impact on yeast performance."

    Seems pretty specific definition of yan equivalanet but it's nice to see it explicitly written by them nonetheless
    "Shouldn’t we say wine is a mead-like beverage made with grapes substituted for the honey?" - Steve Piatz

  4. #164
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    North Carolina and Mississippi
    Posts
    99

    Default

    So if I'm reading that right, they recommend only two feedings, and the maximum dose is 60g/ hl, which would translate to at total of only 12g for a 20L or a 5 gallon batch? That doesn't sound like much. My two 5 gallon batches I have going now calculated out to 20 grams total each for 71B. Of course this is for wine musts, right? Mead musts must require more nitrogen.

  5. #165

    Default

    So YAN is determined by gravity and yeast strain requirements
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

  6. #166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edaskew View Post
    So if I'm reading that right, they recommend only two feedings, and the maximum dose is 60g/ hl, which would translate to at total of only 12g for a 20L or a 5 gallon batch? That doesn't sound like much. My two 5 gallon batches I have going now calculated out to 20 grams total each for 71B. Of course this is for wine musts, right? Mead musts must require more nitrogen.
    Yes, unless something is explicitly referring to mead it's probably referring to grape wine. All that info is rather pointless. The point I was making was regarding to the term "yan equivalent". Early in this thread there was a debate whether yan equivalent was a thing. Lallemand gave some hints towards it and us mead makers (and tosna) were suspicious we should use "yan equivalent" rather than just taking yan amounts from off the package (yan equivalent is higher in the case of Fermaid O). Tosna at meadmaderight.com gives a good calculation of how much Fermaid O to use by taking into consideration yan equivalent, yeast strain, and gravity. In the good old days mazers would simply add a teaspoon or so of dap or fermaid K every feeding or front-load all nutrients because they couldn't be bothered. They used so supply way over the amount needed very often and, at least sometimes, this resulted in inferior results
    "Shouldn’t we say wine is a mead-like beverage made with grapes substituted for the honey?" - Steve Piatz

  7. #167
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    North Carolina and Mississippi
    Posts
    99

    Default

    In the good old days, you boiled your honey, you put in your yeast nutrient, you mixed it all up, pitched your yeast and you forgot about it. Then you could drink some 2 years later.

  8. #168
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Fusel Shack, in the swamp west of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
    Posts
    8,712

    Default

    I'm still having difficulty with the concept that Amino Acid nitrogen in Fermaid O is 2.5 times as effective as other nitrogen. Yes, the Lallemand documentation states:

    Fermaid YAN.PNG

    However, the statement "In many trials it has been demonstrated that ‘organic’ YAN is approximately 2.5 times more efficient than inorganicYAN on a per mg basis," leaves me wanting the specifics. So far, I'm looking for some of these trials in the literature and I'm not finding much. While there is anecdotal evidence that this may be true, I'd like to see some of these studies to understand the comparisons.

    If anyone has any of this data, I'd appreciate it if you could point out where we can find it.

    -Medsen
    Lanne pase toujou pi bon
    (Past years are always better)

  9. #169
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Brookline, NH
    Posts
    691

    Default

    Medsen,

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I read this is statement (see below) is that, as of yet, there is no "defined method of evaluation" to link the concept to. It sounds to me that the "trials" they reference may be non-scientific or anecdotal.


    "This concept needs to be linked to a defined method of evaluation: using a MS70 synthetic medium with reference yeast and a 40 g / hL NH4+ addition compared to various concentrations of the product to be evaluated and then measuring their effect on dCO2/dt before it is a value / concept that can be used to compare products."

  10. #170
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Fusel Shack, in the swamp west of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
    Posts
    8,712

    Default

    I believe they have run trials, and knowing the folks at Lallemand, probably with good scientific rigor. Unfortunately they keep a lot of that data internal - trade secrets and such. I appreciate the fact that they are suggesting that before we run out and shout that a gram of Fermaid O is equivalent to 2.5 grams of DAP or some other nutrient, that we need to offer the caveat that this has been shown in certain circumstances. I’d just like them to be open about all the circumstances where this has been shown so we can understand it better.

    However, I ain’t gonna hold my breath waiting.

    We need trials in meads.
    Lanne pase toujou pi bon
    (Past years are always better)

  11. #171

    Default

    We won't see test for mead from the mainstream for a good while. The piece of the pie is too small to warrant that. Meanwhile. I'm on the board for the American Mead Makers association. I suspect we will be doing test before the mainstream will in regards to all the gas mead. We have ideas in the works.
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

  12. #172
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Harford, NY
    Posts
    319

    My Social Networking

    Follow Shelley On Twitter Add Shelley on Facebook

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edaskew View Post
    In the good old days, you boiled your honey, you put in your yeast nutrient, you mixed it all up, pitched your yeast and you forgot about it. Then you could drink some 2 years later.
    You still can -- except for the boiling. Don't boil honey (pleads the beekeeper)!
    Mead Magic
    Turn Honey Into Wine
    With our complete one-gallon kit!

Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 789

Similar Threads

  1. common abbreviations
    By quirky in forum Mead NewBees - Post your Questions Here
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-12-2005, 11:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •