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Thread: Read this about aeration. Better mead making techniques!!!

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE]Unfortunately, the O2 systems available at the big online retailers (MoreBeer, Northern Brewer, Midwest Supplies, etc) include regulators without measurable flow rates.[QUOTE]

    This one will do the trick.

    https://www.williamsbrewing.com/OXYG...ANK-P3476.aspx

  2. #22

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    [QUOTE=kernel crush;256019][QUOTE]Unfortunately, the O2 systems available at the big online retailers (MoreBeer, Northern Brewer, Midwest Supplies, etc) include regulators without measurable flow rates.The dial is very deceiving and not at all accurate when using a brand new tank. Had to crank it almost full blast before I saw any trace of bubbles. Midwest employee stated that their oxygenation kits can be hooked up to all O2 regulators. Just got a steal on one at Midwest for $30 since they were getting newer models. Waiting till next paycheck to pick up a 5lb tank.

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  3. #23
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    Were you using a brand new stone?

  4. #24

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    Yep

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  5. #25
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    Strange with a new stone....I didn't get mine from Williams, got it from Amazon but their price is 60 bucks now for what looks like the same thing. At first I had a similar problem so bad it blew my tubing off the wand. POP! The stone was just clogged. I boiled the stone and occasionally blasted some air through it while boiling and haven't had a problem since. Seems to work fine for me, but I haven't plunked down the cash for a DO meter.

  6. #26
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    Hmm, it hadn't clicked before that there'd be a variation in flow. Now that the lightbulb has gone off, it's clear that the patency of your stone and the fullness/pressure of your cylinder would make it so that even if your regulator you might not necessarily get the flow rate you set.

    Perhaps in the interest of consistency and reproducibility an in-line flow meter would be more useful than a regulator?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by zpeckler View Post
    Hmm, it hadn't clicked before that there'd be a variation in flow. Now that the lightbulb has gone off, it's clear that the patency of your stone and the fullness/pressure of your cylinder would make it so that even if your regulator you might not necessarily get the flow rate you set.

    Perhaps in the interest of consistency and reproducibility an in-line flow meter would be more useful than a regulator?
    The larger tank and regulator would save me money in the long run plus provide a more accurate reading. The disposable tanks are about $20 and last about 4 batches tops for me. The tank he mentioned that he had for 2 years and still wasn't empty. $60 for 5 lb tank. The stone didn't seem to be clogged but I could be wrong. I'll boil the stone next time I use it to be sure. I also placed a metal hose clamp on because I don't trust plastic ones. No leaks noted around the seal.

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  8. #28
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    Not saying this is the problem, but I learned to always leave the tank running when you remove the wand, if you stop it while inserted in the fermentor it will backfill must into the stone/wand, making boiling a must.

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    It doesn't backfill, because there is a sufficient stop at the valve to prevent it. It's like inserting a straw into a glass of water, with your finger over the end. Unless you take your finger off, the straw stays full of air. A thorough rinse with hot water and a nice star San soak for my stainless microperf "stone" after use is all I've ever needed.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "Then glory in battle to Hrothgar was given, waxing of war-fame, that willingly kinsmen obeyed his bidding, till the boys grew to manhood, a numerous band. It burned in his spirit to urge his folk to found a great building, a mead-hall grander than men of the era ever had heard of, and in it to share with young and old all of the blessings the Lord had allowed him, save life and retainers." - Beowulf

  10. #30
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    Mine does, I guess its a phreak of nature.

    Real simple test: stick it in starsan for a few minutes without air on, pull it out, turn on air, watch what comes out.

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    Thoughts on .2 micron stone providing more dissolvable O2 due to smaller bubbles escaping less at the surface?
    …fermentation and plant use – as medicine, as psychotropics, as teachers, as companions on our life path – are an inescapable part of our exploration of what it means to be human; that, in fact, our humanness (as we now understand it) could not have occurred without the gift of fermentation or plants.
    ~ Stephen Harrod Buhner

  12. #32

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    I have not seen a .2 micron stone yet. I have seen 2.0 micron, and 0.5 micron. Not sure if you were exactly asking this....but: both will dissolve O2 into must. However, 0.5 micron is more efficient, meaning at the commercial level this can make a huge difference for how much O2 you have to pump into a ton of must. As far as home-brewing goes, the oxygenation times we talk about to reach 14.08 ppm with pure O2 (2 minutes with a 5.3 gallon batch, with OG 18.7 Plato) is referred to using a 0.5 micron stone (Zainasheff's book). I'm not sure how less efficient the 2 micron stone is than the 0.5, so I would not know how to accurately adjust the time for the 2 micron one. The last time I checked they are about the same price, so I would just go with the 0.5 micron stone.

  13. #33
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    Thank you squatchy for this post , a lot of new information for us newbies to digest . Will need to invest in the Chris White book.
    James.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmbradbury View Post
    Thank you squatchy for this post , a lot of new information for us newbies to digest . Will need to invest in the Chris White book.
    James.
    You're very welcome sir. Thanks for the kind words!
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

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    Yes, sorry. I made a typo in that I meant 2 micron. I tried google searching on this but didn't come up with much. Just saw someone say something somewhere about the bubbles being so much smaller and therefore diffusing into the must (wort, in his case) better than 0.5. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with just regulating it so that I'm not blowing it too hard to the surface, as Squatchy has recommended. I'll just go with what was advised in Zainasheff's book and use the 0.5 for at least 90 seconds. Thanks!
    …fermentation and plant use – as medicine, as psychotropics, as teachers, as companions on our life path – are an inescapable part of our exploration of what it means to be human; that, in fact, our humanness (as we now understand it) could not have occurred without the gift of fermentation or plants.
    ~ Stephen Harrod Buhner

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squatchy View Post
    One of the best books I have read is Yeast The practical guide to beer fermentation. By Chris White (White labs) and Jamil Zainasheff Both are PhD's and in the book everything is footnoted to scientific publications. This is the stuff I love. It's not guys who think they know things. It's lab coats who have devoted their entire life to the scientific study of, in this case, beer/whine yeast.
    -----Original Message-----
    Just placed my order for this book! EXCITED!! Thanks, Squatchy!
    …fermentation and plant use – as medicine, as psychotropics, as teachers, as companions on our life path – are an inescapable part of our exploration of what it means to be human; that, in fact, our humanness (as we now understand it) could not have occurred without the gift of fermentation or plants.
    ~ Stephen Harrod Buhner

  17. #37

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    Glad to see you stepping up your game X-tian
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

  18. #38

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    I picked up one of these link on Amazon for 22 ish bucks shipped. They are perfect for aeration.
    Meadmaker since 2016

  19. #39

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    Here are a few good articles on Aeration. They are all for wort though, so its not exactly the same but it does bring up something I noticed.

    BYO.com 4th, 5th, and 6th paragraph

    Effectiveness of Various Methods of Wort Aeration, by Fred L. Johnson, Cheddington Brewery, Apex, North Carolina, USA

    On Brewing Bavarian Helles: Adapting to Low Oxygen Brewing

    Could we be over oxygenating with the pre-pitch O2 addition. Most of the O2 calculations are assuming there is no O2 already in the must. Which is untrue unless you have boiled the water just before adding the honey (or boiled the must, which I know no one here does!), or used campden tablets (sodium metabisulfite) at a level high enough to remove chlorine, chloramine, sanitize any fruits, and leave some SO2 behind. Most likely all of the SO2 will have dissipated prior to the pitch and the DO of the H20 will be 100% again.

    I have searched around but could not find an exact answer for the question "is there any dissolved O2 (aka DO) in Honey". I don't think there is but like I said could not find a yes or no answer. If anyone knows please post the link here! .

    If the answer is no (to DO in Honey), and you have not boiled your water or put a ton of SO2 in from campden. Then the must would contain the DO from the water. The DO of water is dependent on the elevation, temperature, and saturation level. The typical DO of water at sea level, 70 degrees F, and 100% saturation is about 8.9 PPM.

    So if we have a must for a traditional mead that contains 3.69 Gallons of water and 1.31 gallons of honey. Then using a simple mixture calculation ((3.69*8.9)+(1.31*0))/(3.69+1.31) = 6.57 DO.

    That would mean if we were setting a goal of 12 PPM pre-pitch we would only need to add 5.43 PPM of O2.
    Using a .5 micron stone at .2 liters per min of 99% O2 it would only take 22 seconds.

    If you used the calculation with the assumption that the starting PPM was zero then you would would actually be over oxygenating the must by 6.57 PPM and setting it to a level of 18.57 instead of the 12 you were shooting for. Which is a level that could be toxic to yeast.

    Unless I am missing something or calculated something wrong. If I have please let me know!
    Meadmaker since 2016

  20. #40
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    Dont know that much about aereation and i dont use specialized tools to do it (i just shake a lot twice a day for the first days) but here are my 2 cents
    Gasses balance. This means that yes, wated does have O2 as you say, dissolved. But it also means any O2 you add will tend to dissipate faster if there is more O2 in the water/must. How long before pitching the yeast you aereate will determine how much of it escapes.
    About DO in honey, its unlikely it any worth-mentioning amounts.
    Keep in mind you inadvertedly oxigenate the must when you dump the honey in water, when you splash the water on the bucket, when you stir/shake to disolve honey... so for me, while your equations might be good, seems like the actual DO varies depending on the techniques... As you know, honey is also full of antioxidant compounds, so it might not be the same in mead as it is in wine or beer. And some people use campden tablets and that lowers the ammount of DO too.
    Apart from that, I dont know to what extent DO is toxic to the yeast or what values of DO you need for it to be toxic. Those are important things too

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