Just wait it out. You can't do anything about it right now anymore anyway. So just wait for it to complete its fermentation. Then do taste/smell tests and see how it came out. If it's agreeable but you're afraid of further contamination, stabilize with sulphites to make sure that batch will never ferment anything again. Perhaps over time and with racking the batch will become cleaner. I've had batches myself with funny stuff floating on the top (one time it was contaminated vegetable oil). But since it floats, every time you rack you're essentially separating it from the rest of the batch again.
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Film on Cyser Surface
- Thread starter BlackFriarsMonastery
- Start date
Most pellicles takes a couple months to form, which would be in the right time frame if you pitched your yeast end of July. From what I have read on google searches and talking with guys at local brew store, the pellicle is what sour-beer brewers actually want. I believe the pellicle eats dead yeast cells and produces lactic acid which in high enough amounts creates that sour flavor. I don't know how long this takes to deveope that flavor, but if its truly a pellicle I suspect you should start detecting sour notes in the next couple months. Even if you don't like it, there are a lot of people who do! (I tried making one a couple years ago but failed, think I used too much hops that prevented the bacteria from growing)
Also, if its a pellicle, simply racking it wont make it go away, it will grow back (not sure how long it takes though). I suspect you'd have to rack and heavily sulfite it to kill it off, but if its going strong I don't know the ppm required, or if the required amount starts to surpass the sulfite taste threshold. Another question I was unable to figure out is how home brewers prevent it from growing once bottled. I imagine even those who love the sour taste wouldn't to look at/feel a layer of mold on top of their beer
As a side note, I've had some meads made from raw unfiltered honey that look like that when light is shined on it. Did you take that picture with a flash? The flash really lights up a lot of the proteins/yeast/residual foam/bees wax that can float to the top, making it look a bit scary--when in fact its just a sign of the high quality/unfiltered honey that was used..
Also, if its a pellicle, simply racking it wont make it go away, it will grow back (not sure how long it takes though). I suspect you'd have to rack and heavily sulfite it to kill it off, but if its going strong I don't know the ppm required, or if the required amount starts to surpass the sulfite taste threshold. Another question I was unable to figure out is how home brewers prevent it from growing once bottled. I imagine even those who love the sour taste wouldn't to look at/feel a layer of mold on top of their beer
As a side note, I've had some meads made from raw unfiltered honey that look like that when light is shined on it. Did you take that picture with a flash? The flash really lights up a lot of the proteins/yeast/residual foam/bees wax that can float to the top, making it look a bit scary--when in fact its just a sign of the high quality/unfiltered honey that was used..
Ok, finally free of the hospital! Now to sit down and talk about wild microbes and sanitation...
As far as my personal tastes go, I love the funky characteristics that Brett makes. I also love sour beers, Belgian lambics in particular. To me--from a philosophical standpoint--I wouldn't see colonization of one of my meads with Brett or bacteria as an "infection," but rather an opportunity for the mead to develop some unexpected or unique flavors. Of course, depending on the batch these new flavors might not work, but I don't automatically view a little Brett-funk or sourness as a fault unless it clashes with the overall motif of the batch.
First off, a little microbiology background. Despite the common homebrewers' myth, Brettanomyces is a yeast, not a bacteria. It's actually a relatively close relative of Saccharomyces! It's a naturally-occurring, endemic throughout the environment, and especially common on fruit and grape skins. The reason Brett has a reputation for tenacity and resistance to sanitation is that it forms a biofilm when it's been in contact with a surface for a while. What this means is that if Brett has colonized a surface and established a biofilm, the biofilm will shelter the organisms from the activity of the sanitizer and allow it to grow in the next batch. In order to ensure adequate sanitation the biofilm needs to be mechanically removed and disrupted (i.e. every surface scrubbed vigorously).
Fortunately for homebrewers, Brett does not form spores, which are incredibly tenacious and can sometimes survive even a trip through an autoclave! Brett is not airborne; Brett and Saccharomyces batches can sit next to each other without any worry of cross-contamination on the part of the meadmaker. Brett can live, form biofilms, and evade sanitizer in the pores of wood, and so barrels or oak chips are basically impossible to ever truly sanitize once exposed to Brett. It can survive a pH as low as 2, and can tolerate as much alcohol as winemaking yeasts like EC-1118 or K1-V1116. It is not sensitive to kill-factor. Standard winemaking levels of sulfite will kill or inhibit its growth in a must.
The bacteria that you see in polymicrobial fermentations are most commonly Lactobacillus and Pediococcus. Nether forms biofilms or spores, and are easily killed with standard sanitation practices. They are, of course, killed by the alpha-acids found in hops; although Pedio needs a higher IBU than Lacto to totally inhibit its growth. Both bacteria are endemic in the environment, and Lacto in particular grows on grains and in flour (as anyone who's made a sourdough starter can attest).
Acetobacter is the only microbe of the bunch that I would consider a true contaminant. It's the bacteria that makes acetic acid, the acid found in vinegar. Since this post is getting long already, I'll talk about Acetobacter upon request.
The film on the top of your cyser looks like a pellicle. A pellicle is a polysaccharide film--a type of biofilm--made by Brett and a few other microbes that protects the microbe from excessive oxygen levels. It in and of itself is harmless, and will vanish into your batch with some vigorous agitation. Of course, it will reform after disruption because the microbes that made it are still active.
So, what to do if you suspect colonization by Brett, Lacto, or Pedio? First off, don't panic. "Keep calm and milk the funk." The batch might not be ruined, but whether or not you like the barnyard flavors made by Brett or the sourness made by the bacteria is a matter of personal taste.
The issue of cross-colonization is one that should be taken seriously, but as long as you follow logical, microbiologically-based practices the risk can be minimized. I've now made several batches of both mead and cider that have undergone polymicrobial fermentations with Brett and lactic acid bacteria, and used lots of my equipment between Brett and non-Brett batches with no cross-colonization so far. Because Brett forms the biofilm anything that has come in contact with it needs to be thoroughly scrubbed on every surface, inside and out, after every use. All pieces are disassembled and all nooks and crannies are scrubbed thoroughly. After that, my practice it to completely submerge the item in StarSan for 12-24hrs before I use it on a non-Brett batch.
One critical point here is that the items that I'm using between batches are all made of glass or steel, and thus are hard enough not to scratch even with vigorous scrubbing. I use my hydrometers, glass hydrometer test jar, glass carboys, and a long steel spoon I use for stirring between batches.
I have separate sets of Brett and non-Brett plastic items such as buckets, autosiphons, and tubing. This is because there's no way I can scrub the insides, or they have too many nooks and crannies for me to be confident that I'm scrubbing every possible surface. Also, because these items are made of soft plastic, they probably have multiple small scratches where Brett can hide. I've got a dedicated "Brett Bucket" fermentor for my larger polymicrobial batches that I don't even bother to scrub after use because I know that anyone going in it will be a Brett batch; I just clean out visible gunk and sanitize with StarSan like normal.
I hope this helps! What I would recommend for this batch is to put it somewhere out of the way and let it age into itself. Brett is slow-growing and slow-metabolizing, so most batches need a little time to really come into their own. When it starts to clear in a few weeks, rack it into a carboy like you would any other batch. In the meantime, try to avoid jostling it and disrupting the pellicle. That will keep the microbes happy and help them make their best flavors. If you don't like the barnyard flavors that Brett makes, and this batch isn't to your taste, I would pitch your fermentation bucket and any other plastic pieces of equipment that came in contact with this batch and get a new stuff.
As far as my personal tastes go, I love the funky characteristics that Brett makes. I also love sour beers, Belgian lambics in particular. To me--from a philosophical standpoint--I wouldn't see colonization of one of my meads with Brett or bacteria as an "infection," but rather an opportunity for the mead to develop some unexpected or unique flavors. Of course, depending on the batch these new flavors might not work, but I don't automatically view a little Brett-funk or sourness as a fault unless it clashes with the overall motif of the batch.
First off, a little microbiology background. Despite the common homebrewers' myth, Brettanomyces is a yeast, not a bacteria. It's actually a relatively close relative of Saccharomyces! It's a naturally-occurring, endemic throughout the environment, and especially common on fruit and grape skins. The reason Brett has a reputation for tenacity and resistance to sanitation is that it forms a biofilm when it's been in contact with a surface for a while. What this means is that if Brett has colonized a surface and established a biofilm, the biofilm will shelter the organisms from the activity of the sanitizer and allow it to grow in the next batch. In order to ensure adequate sanitation the biofilm needs to be mechanically removed and disrupted (i.e. every surface scrubbed vigorously).
Fortunately for homebrewers, Brett does not form spores, which are incredibly tenacious and can sometimes survive even a trip through an autoclave! Brett is not airborne; Brett and Saccharomyces batches can sit next to each other without any worry of cross-contamination on the part of the meadmaker. Brett can live, form biofilms, and evade sanitizer in the pores of wood, and so barrels or oak chips are basically impossible to ever truly sanitize once exposed to Brett. It can survive a pH as low as 2, and can tolerate as much alcohol as winemaking yeasts like EC-1118 or K1-V1116. It is not sensitive to kill-factor. Standard winemaking levels of sulfite will kill or inhibit its growth in a must.
The bacteria that you see in polymicrobial fermentations are most commonly Lactobacillus and Pediococcus. Nether forms biofilms or spores, and are easily killed with standard sanitation practices. They are, of course, killed by the alpha-acids found in hops; although Pedio needs a higher IBU than Lacto to totally inhibit its growth. Both bacteria are endemic in the environment, and Lacto in particular grows on grains and in flour (as anyone who's made a sourdough starter can attest).
Acetobacter is the only microbe of the bunch that I would consider a true contaminant. It's the bacteria that makes acetic acid, the acid found in vinegar. Since this post is getting long already, I'll talk about Acetobacter upon request.
The film on the top of your cyser looks like a pellicle. A pellicle is a polysaccharide film--a type of biofilm--made by Brett and a few other microbes that protects the microbe from excessive oxygen levels. It in and of itself is harmless, and will vanish into your batch with some vigorous agitation. Of course, it will reform after disruption because the microbes that made it are still active.
So, what to do if you suspect colonization by Brett, Lacto, or Pedio? First off, don't panic. "Keep calm and milk the funk."
The batch might not be ruined, but whether or not you like the barnyard flavors made by Brett or the sourness made by the bacteria is a matter of personal taste.The issue of cross-colonization is one that should be taken seriously, but as long as you follow logical, microbiologically-based practices the risk can be minimized. I've now made several batches of both mead and cider that have undergone polymicrobial fermentations with Brett and lactic acid bacteria, and used lots of my equipment between Brett and non-Brett batches with no cross-colonization so far. Because Brett forms the biofilm anything that has come in contact with it needs to be thoroughly scrubbed on every surface, inside and out, after every use. All pieces are disassembled and all nooks and crannies are scrubbed thoroughly. After that, my practice it to completely submerge the item in StarSan for 12-24hrs before I use it on a non-Brett batch.
One critical point here is that the items that I'm using between batches are all made of glass or steel, and thus are hard enough not to scratch even with vigorous scrubbing. I use my hydrometers, glass hydrometer test jar, glass carboys, and a long steel spoon I use for stirring between batches.
I have separate sets of Brett and non-Brett plastic items such as buckets, autosiphons, and tubing. This is because there's no way I can scrub the insides, or they have too many nooks and crannies for me to be confident that I'm scrubbing every possible surface. Also, because these items are made of soft plastic, they probably have multiple small scratches where Brett can hide. I've got a dedicated "Brett Bucket" fermentor for my larger polymicrobial batches that I don't even bother to scrub after use because I know that anyone going in it will be a Brett batch; I just clean out visible gunk and sanitize with StarSan like normal.
I hope this helps! What I would recommend for this batch is to put it somewhere out of the way and let it age into itself. Brett is slow-growing and slow-metabolizing, so most batches need a little time to really come into their own. When it starts to clear in a few weeks, rack it into a carboy like you would any other batch. In the meantime, try to avoid jostling it and disrupting the pellicle. That will keep the microbes happy and help them make their best flavors. If you don't like the barnyard flavors that Brett makes, and this batch isn't to your taste, I would pitch your fermentation bucket and any other plastic pieces of equipment that came in contact with this batch and get a new stuff.
Ok, finally free of the hospital! Now to sit down and talk about wild microbes and sanitation...
As far as my personal tastes go, I love the funky characteristics that Brett makes. I also love sour beers, Belgian lambics in particular. To me--from a philosophical standpoint--I wouldn't see colonization of one of my meads with Brett or bacteria as an "infection," but rather an opportunity for the mead to develop some unexpected or unique flavors. Of course, depending on the batch these new flavors might not work, but I don't automatically view a little Brett-funk or sourness as a fault unless it clashes with the overall motif of the batch.
First off, a little microbiology background. Despite the common homebrewers' myth, Brettanomyces is a yeast, not a bacteria. It's actually a relatively close relative of Saccharomyces! It's a naturally-occurring, endemic throughout the environment, and especially common on fruit and grape skins. The reason Brett has a reputation for tenacity and resistance to sanitation is that it forms a biofilm when it's been in contact with a surface for a while. What this means is that if Brett has colonized a surface and established a biofilm, the biofilm will shelter the organisms from the activity of the sanitizer and allow it to grow in the next batch. In order to ensure adequate sanitation the biofilm needs to be mechanically removed and disrupted (i.e. every surface scrubbed vigorously).
Fortunately for homebrewers, Brett does not form spores, which are incredibly tenacious and can sometimes survive even a trip through an autoclave! Brett is not airborne; Brett and Saccharomyces batches can sit next to each other without any worry of cross-contamination on the part of the meadmaker. Brett can live, form biofilms, and evade sanitizer in the pores of wood, and so barrels or oak chips are basically impossible to ever truly sanitize once exposed to Brett. It can survive a pH as low as 2, and can tolerate as much alcohol as winemaking yeasts like EC-1118 or K1-V1116. It is not sensitive to kill-factor. Standard winemaking levels of sulfite will kill or inhibit its growth in a must.
The bacteria that you see in polymicrobial fermentations are most commonly Lactobacillus and Pediococcus. Nether forms biofilms or spores, and are easily killed with standard sanitation practices. They are, of course, killed by the alpha-acids found in hops; although Pedio needs a higher IBU than Lacto to totally inhibit its growth. Both bacteria are endemic in the environment, and Lacto in particular grows on grains and in flour (as anyone who's made a sourdough starter can attest).
Acetobacter is the only microbe of the bunch that I would consider a true contaminant. It's the bacteria that makes acetic acid, the acid found in vinegar. Since this post is getting long already, I'll talk about Acetobacter upon request.
The film on the top of your cyser looks like a pellicle. A pellicle is a polysaccharide film--a type of biofilm--made by Brett and a few other microbes that protects the microbe from excessive oxygen levels. It in and of itself is harmless, and will vanish into your batch with some vigorous agitation. Of course, it will reform after disruption because the microbes that made it are still active.
So, what to do if you suspect colonization by Brett, Lacto, or Pedio? First off, don't panic. "Keep calm and milk the funk."
The issue of cross-colonization is one that should be taken seriously, but as long as you follow logical, microbiologically-based practices the risk can be minimized. I've now made several batches of both mead and cider that have undergone polymicrobial fermentations with Brett and lactic acid bacteria, and used lots of my equipment between Brett and non-Brett batches with no cross-colonization so far. Because Brett forms the biofilm anything that has come in contact with it needs to be thoroughly scrubbed on every surface, inside and out, after every use. All pieces are disassembled and all nooks and crannies are scrubbed thoroughly. After that, my practice it to completely submerge the item in StarSan for 12-24hrs before I use it on a non-Brett batch.
One critical point here is that the items that I'm using between batches are all made of glass or steel, and thus are hard enough not to scratch even with vigorous scrubbing. I use my hydrometers, glass hydrometer test jar, glass carboys, and a long steel spoon I use for stirring between batches.
I have separate sets of Brett and non-Brett plastic items such as buckets, autosiphons, and tubing. This is because there's no way I can scrub the insides, or they have too many nooks and crannies for me to be confident that I'm scrubbing every possible surface. Also, because these items are made of soft plastic, they probably have multiple small scratches where Brett can hide. I've got a dedicated "Brett Bucket" fermentor for my larger polymicrobial batches that I don't even bother to scrub after use because I know that anyone going in it will be a Brett batch; I just clean out visible gunk and sanitize with StarSan like normal.
I hope this helps! What I would recommend for this batch is to put it somewhere out of the way and let it age into itself. Brett is slow-growing and slow-metabolizing, so most batches need a little time to really come into their own. When it starts to clear in a few weeks, rack it into a carboy like you would any other batch. In the meantime, try to avoid jostling it and disrupting the pellicle. That will keep the microbes happy and help them make their best flavors. If you don't like the barnyard flavors that Brett makes, and this batch isn't to your taste, I would pitch your fermentation bucket and any other plastic pieces of equipment that came in contact with this batch and get a new stuff.
Great job Zack. Thanks for the good info. Would you be as kind to start a new thread and educate us about Acetobacter please?
Will do... My call schedule this week is pretty brutal, so I might not get to it until the weekend.
Noticed a similar looking film on my Apple and pear cider. Only noticed after fermentation. Had a taste and luckily it's added some very nice flavors
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Info on Acetobacter here!
I also included links to my bibliography on wild microbes and mixed fermentation.
I also included links to my bibliography on wild microbes and mixed fermentation.
You could get some carboys and good airlocks and use some metabisulphites to help keep this from happening again and to possibly stop and save this batch for continuing to go down, you might want to drink this one early. Surface yeast is a common problem in cidermaking, especially for those who dont use metabisulphites. Keeping this in a bucket that is leaking air into your cyser is going to continue the problem. The bleach in meadmaking not the best, your starsan does the same job. Also brand new buckets with new lids are cheap at farming supply stores so you dont have to worry about what was in it before. WVMJ
I agree with WVMJack. Get the cyser into glass and put it under and airlock. Plastic is slightly permeable to oxygen, kind of like a barrel. After that, toss the bucket if you're not looking to do wild-ferment batches in the future. After this batch is finished, clean or replace your other equipment as I described above. Don't toss the cyser, though! Give it between 6-12 months to age before bottling.
Unlike all my other meads (which are mostly traditionals or metheglins), I always sulfite my cysers and melomels when mixing up the must to suppress non-Saccharomyces organisms in my "clean" batches. Fruit brings over so many wild organisms.
Unlike all my other meads (which are mostly traditionals or metheglins), I always sulfite my cysers and melomels when mixing up the must to suppress non-Saccharomyces organisms in my "clean" batches. Fruit brings over so many wild organisms.
