The undelying flavor of Mead?

Northeast? What state? I'm in NH.

When it comes to urinal cakes, I think you have a more experienced and discriminating palate than mine

Hm it took me some time to understand what you ment by urinal cake, tbh
I'd say my meads dont taste like that but i have never had the pleasure to taste such cakes, my friend.
Jokes aside, it could be from inproper sanitation and/or yeast-y problems. I dont find in my meads smells related to bathrooms, unless somebody cleans them with citrus-smelling chemicals.
Check your sanitizing procedures. do you use bleach or other chemicals to sanitize the buckets? maybe you are over-sulphiting?
On the other hand the only comercial mead I have tried was a polish Dwojniak, and i can tell you, that is like heaven made liquid. So...no, no UC flavour.
However, many people have different palates. I once shared a mead with 8 people. 1 of them said it had a "bleach" off flavour. nobody else noticed it. However, for that mead i had used bleach to sanitize the bucket. I dont do that anymore but when i did, i was very very careful not over using it, and rinsing it a lot so it wouldnt affect flavour. Did my friend taste the bleach or was just because he had never tasted mead before? I dont know. So maybe your yeast is just producing off flavours and you have a very sensitive palate, or it comes from your chemicals. Some people have been reported to taste sulhpites at half the normal concentrations... Have you shared your meads with your friends and asked them?

Of course. Each one of us associates different flavours and aromas with certain things. That alone changes your perception.
And also some people are more sensible to some smells/flavours than others. They detect them in lower or higher ammounts. Or not at all.
You can even get something like smell/flavour "daltonism" (for example you can eat an omelette and the taste you feel be the same i feel when i eat, lets say, a steak). Not saying its necesarily your case but...

Would you share the ingredients you used? Did you feed the yeast nutrients? If so, what kind? Did you use DAP? (DAP in fact contains urine - albeit purified) Could you give us an idea of the time table you used? Thanks WayneG.

WayneG said:

I just bought a commercial mead, that will remain nameless, and it also has a somewhat heavy UC flavor (along with heavy oak).

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If you provide the name of the commercial mead and I am able to buy it, I can determine whether I also detect the UC flavor. At a minimum, we can then determine if its something unique to your tastebuds, or something that is truly in that mead. At which point we can debate whether its a flaw, or something that perhaps the meadery intentionally wants for some reason.

It looks to me that your doing things mostly correct. Except your not using the correct amount of Go-ferm and hot water when your doing your rehydration. The proper amount is important for two reasons. One is they figure how much of the goodies they yeast need (dosage). ANd then the second it to make the water hardness level correct so that the transition of particles will flow nicely into the cell structure. It's like an equalization process. If the slurry is to soft when the fluid rushes into the cell it will cause the guts to burst as the heavier portion of stuff is inside the yeast guts and try to hard to blend with the water .

Maybe someone else can describe what I'm trying to say. If they even know this phenomenon.

If you have distilled water (which is totally void of any particulates). ANd blend it with a very hard water that has (lets just say for explanation purposes has 1000 PPM) of particulates in this water. Now you add the two together and the particles all rush to the other side to disperse the particulates evenly. SO they are actually blending the PPM so they are equal in value in both /all parts of the combined water.

This will happen inside the cell. ANd inside the organelle of the yeast is PPM of particulates that will try to Blend/equalize with the PPM of the Go-ferm particulates. If the difference is too extreme it will tear apart the organelle as the walls are very delicate. The equalization forces the blending of slurry and cell. If it's at the correct portion of water to Go-ferm the transition is seamless inside the cell and the equalization is in balance and everything stays in tact. If the difference is extreme it is a violent rush and destroys the guts of the cells.

This is also why you NEVER EVER use distilled water to rehydrate your dry yeast. ANd why you should use the proper amount of Go-ferm to water ration.

Here is the directions from the manufacture. http://www.scottlab.com/pdf/ScottlabsHandbook2016.pdf Page seven I believe.


I have zero experience with your cleaning agents. I know they are legit and I have heard of them. MY very first suggestion would be to switch up to using a different product. They seem to me to stand out as the cause for your tainted flavor.

Maybe try Starsan instead. Let us know if you do. It would interesting to know if that's it.

Lastly. If you wanted to mail me a small sample in a plastic water bottle. I can taste it for you and then comment.

It might just be part of the honey flavor profile. Have you tried different honey or is it all the same honey as well?

I haven't used DAP in 2 years and am glad I moved away from it. But when I did I used 2 part K to every one part DAP. The flavor you are trying to describe could very well be from the DAP. Try tasting some DAP in water and see if that is similar to your UC flavor. Now that I reread your log. It makes me think this is your problem. You will need to refigure your YAN cals to incorporate the changed values of DAP/K so your required value is still the same after you flip flop the DAP/K combination.

In any case if you do what I suggest in all areas. You could then be assured your process is better aligned to good mead making and if the flavor still persists it's probably in the honey.

What you describe is called cell lysis. It happens because the membrane is permeable to water. The cell is full of salts and ions and the water is not. The difference makes the water flow inside of the cell. If the difference in salts concentration is too big this happens too fast for the cell to adapt and bursts.
And i thought of the honey too. If you are tasting different meads from meaderies near you it could be related. Ask them maybe

WayneG said:

I know the Go-Ferm was either light or my notes were not showing the correct quantity, I did use spring water for the hydration.
I fixed the Go-Ferm ratio in my Cherry Apple mead, keeping the DAP & Fermaid-K method. The ABV is rising faster in that batch, but I assume the juice sugars have a lot to do with that.

BTW, it is day 17 on that batch and it is at 14% ABV and still fermenting, it uses local wildflower honey and about 50/50 of apple juice & Trader Joe's Tart Cherry juice and even though it is no where near done, the taste is awesome with much less UC notes.

I just ordered a Buon Vino Mini Jet Filter for when that batch is done.

If the DAP is a possible flavor ruining addition, I may try alternative methods on the next batch.


Squatchy, if you can send me an address, I can send you a sample of the first batch.

I was going to order a bottle from Moonlight Meadery to do a comparison test but with shipping, and packaging it was $44 for a 375 ml bottle!
Hell I would expect a good steak with my mead for that price!
I will be heading that way in April and buy several bottles for less money.
Wayne

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Hi Wayne

Every batch is a little different. And some are slower than others. ANd the particulars you employ will also slow down or speed up the process some. (And speed is never desired over good flavor. Usually only a sign that the yeast are well care for.) But it's not uncommon to have my batches go a little faster than what yours is running. If your taste good at the end of the day, then perfect. No problem. I usually chew 1120-1140 points for the most part in 14 days, with just the last few points rolling over to the following week.

I do think if you get the rehydration part exact that will help some. And I really can't recommend the use of Fermaid-O, Go-ferm, and the TOSNA protocol enough. It's easy to use, easy to purchase and is pretty bullet proof if you add the other pieces of good fermentation management to it.

I will PM you my address.