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Thread: Second Batch - Comments please!!

  1. #1

    Default Second Batch - Comments please!!

    Newbie here, starting my second batch. I won't detail my first as I dove in too quick before researching as I should have.
    I would love comments, correction etc on the plan before I start it.
    The plan for a 1 Gallon semi-sweet Show Mead @17-18 ABV:

    Yeast Slurry:
    * 3.125g Go-Ferm into 17ml of water @ 110degrees
    * Cool to 104 and add 2.5g of Lavlin EC-1118
    *sit for 15 mins, then stir in 17ml of Must
    *sit for 15 mins before adding to Must

    MUST:
    *1/4 gal H2O into plastic 2 gal fermenter
    * Stir in 3.8 lbs of Orange Blossom Honey
    * Add remaining H2O to reach 1 Gal. Stir/Aerate- Target starting SG to 1.140
    *Add 1/2 tsp Fermaid-K, 1/4 tsp DAP - Stir/Aerate
    *Pitch Yeast Slurrry - Stir/Aerate

    LAG:
    *2-4 hrs as needed - then additional 1/2 tsp Fermaid-K and 1/4 tsp DAP - Aerate

    Ferm Management:
    *24 hrs - 1/2 tsp Fermaid-K and 1/4 tsp DAP - Aerate/Degas
    *48 hrs - 1/2 tsp Fermaid-K - Aerate/Degas (1/3 sugar break?)
    *72 hrs - 1/2 tsp Fermaid-K - Aerate/Degas (2/3 sugar break?) I will take SG readings at each point.
    *Degas daily until fermentation completes.

    From there, 1st rack 2-3 weeks in and manage based on observations from there.

    Feedback greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    584

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    Use TiOSNA- google it.
    Don't bother using DAP

  3. #3

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    How did you come up with 17 ml of water for your rehydration? It's 20 times the weight of Go-ferm. Use the whole 5 gram packet of yeast. Learn how to attemperate your yeast slurry to slowly bring your temps together so the slurry is the same temp as the must before pitch. Don't rack based on a time frame. What are you thionking you will gain by racking so soon?

    1140 with Ec will make it bone dry. You'll need to add 20 more points of sugar half way into your ferment. Temp control at mid 60's will give you the best profile.
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

  4. #4

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    Thanks for the replies. I'll Google TiOSNA and drop the DAP.

    I'll double check the other calculations this evening but I did use the Meadmkr batch calculator when determining Go-Ferm and yeast amounts. This is going to be a 1 Gal batch.
    I assumed that fermentation would be near complete at 3 weeks using the 1118?

    I really appreciate the input. I'm going review everything and repost after modifications.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squatchy View Post
    How did you come up with 17 ml of water for your rehydration? It's 20 times the weight of Go-ferm. Use the whole 5 gram packet of yeast. Learn how to attemperate your yeast slurry to slowly bring your temps together so the slurry is the same temp as the must before pitch. Don't rack based on a time frame. What are you thionking you will gain by racking so soon?

    1140 with Ec will make it bone dry. You'll need to add 20 more points of sugar half way into your ferment. Temp control at mid 60's will give you the best profile.

    OK, I certainly had the go-ferm/water wrong. Thanks caduseus. Still unsure on the amount of yeast. Everything I have read suggests 2.5g, not 5g for a 1 gallon batch. Still soaking in all I read on TOSNA by Travis Blount-Elliot so this may change. Hoping to back away from a dry and target semi-sweet, so, here goes

    Yeast Slurry:
    * 3.75g Go-Ferm into 75ml of water @ 110degrees
    * Cool to 104 and add 2.5g of Lavlin EC-1118
    *sit for 15 mins, then stir in 75ml of Must
    *sit for 15 mins before adding to Must ensuring must and slurry are within 5 degrees

    MUST:
    *1/4 gal H2O into plastic 2 gal fermenter
    * Stir in 4.0 lbs of Orange Blossom Honey
    * Add remaining H2O to reach 1 Gal. Stir/Aerate- Target starting SG to 1.13
    *Add 1g Fermaid-K, - Stir/Aerate
    *Pitch Yeast Slurrry - Stir/Aerate

    LAG:
    *2-4 hrs as needed - then additional .5g Fermaid-K and Aerate

    Ferm Management:
    *24 hrs - Aerate/Degas 2xs daily for first 3 days
    1/3 sugar break - .5g Fermaid-K - Aerate/Degas
    2/3 sugar break -.5g Fermaid-K - Aerate/Degas (I will take SG readings at each point.)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Spain, Europe
    Posts
    718

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    If you use TiOSNA and 1118 the ferment should be over in 1 week or 2 max.

  7. #7

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    Test- My replies are days late :-(

    This has been done. Please comment

    Batch #2:
    Yeast Slurry:
    * 3.75g Go-Ferm into 75ml of water @ 110degrees
    * Cool to 104 and add 5g of Lavlin EC-1118
    *sit for 15 mins, then stir in 75ml of Must
    *sit for 15 mins before adding to Must ensuring must and slurry are within 5 degrees

    Pitch was with slurry and must at 72 deg each

    MUST:
    *1/4 gal H2O into plastic 2 gal fermenter
    * Stir in 4.0 lbs of Orange Blossom Honey
    * Add remaining H2O to reach 1 Gal. Stir/Aerate starting wasSG to 1.132
    *Add .1g Fermaid-K, and .5g –Potasium Carbonate Stir/Aerate
    *Pitch Yeast Slurrry - Stir/Aerate

    Must SG:1.32 Brix: 31.1 ish

    LAG:
    *2-4 hrs as needed - then additional .5g Fermaid-K and Aerate
    Ran about 4 hrs, but guessing 1 gallon in a 2 gallon fermenter took extra time b4 I saw it bubbling.

    Ferm Management:
    Today 24 hrs - Aerated/Degased .5 g ferm-K – SG at 1.124, PH 3.7

    Next:
    1/3 sugar break - .5g Fermaid-K - Aerate/Degas 2x daily I will take SG readings at each point.
    2/3 sugar break -.5g Fermaid-K – Stir (I will take SG readings at each point.
    Last edited by NightWolf; 05-13-2017 at 09:38 PM. Reason: na

  8. #8

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    Ao a couple of things. Your amount of water for the goferm is 20 times the weight of goferm. So you need to weigh your goferm and then weigh your water. When attemperating, I usually add no more than 1/4 the amount of new must to slurry so it slowly gets used to the temps,pH, acidity, and gravity. Think of how a lot of people get into a cold pool. They slip in slowly and a little at a time. This is how we like to slid the yeast into the must.

    All of the scientific research I have read (tons) have said to feed all of your food by the time you get to the 1/3 sugar break. Almost everyone I know does this with great results. Lots of people use TOSNA (meadmaderight.com) and that is designed to feed on a time frame and not by gravity points. It works great.

    Lastly, if any of your YAN has DAP in it the yeast will no longer assimilate the DAP past the 9% abv. ( I do see you used Fermaid K. So I'm just saying ) So any in the must after this point does not get eaten and it will give your mead a chemical taste. I stopped using DAP 2 years ago and don't know of any reason to date that I would ever go back.

    Your probably just fine using a buffer as a stop gap but I don't and never really find I need it. It's a misnomer that yeast will stop fermenting below 3.4. That's just not true. People say it over and over because they hear others say it but it's just not true. I have some on hand if I need to use it, but only if something stalls. I have made a couple hundred gallons and have never had anything stall on me and many times I go below 3.4 pH without a single problem. I even ferment under the recommended temps most of the time as well. And that should maybe make it more prone to crapping out.
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

  9. #9

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    Thanks for all the good input Squatchy. I've added your points on the Go-Ferm to water ratio and better management of the initial blending (slower!) of the must/slurry to my notes for future meads. Dropping DAP for any future recipes.

    I'm not 100% sure what you mean by using a buffer as a stop gap?

    I'm going to aerate/degas this morning and later this evening. Will add 1 last .5g of Fermaid-K at the 1/3 break (SG 1.089) and fore go any additional YAN from there.

    One last point I'm unsure on is fermentation time. Dadux says this will stop in a very short time. Does this affect taste, etc? Is there a specific target on duration?

    The fermenter is bubbling nicely now at about 7 sec per gurgle. :-)

    Thanks again very much for the input! I plan on working/tweaking these 1 Gal batches until I get it right!

  10. #10

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    Don't concern yourself too much on the fermentation time. Good management is what's important. Most of you honey will usually get eaten in about 10 days or so and then it slows down a good bit. 2 weeks, plus or minus is normal. Some strains are slower. And the colder you run your temps the slower your batch will go. Slow is good.

    Adding your potassium carbonate to control your pH from dropping too low is ok to do. But some would say to not add anything you don't need until you actually do need it. Counting bubbles really won't give you much info. Your airlock will bubble for weeks after the fermentation is over. So you really need to buy a hydrometer if you want to do well making mead.
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squatchy View Post
    Don't concern yourself too much on the fermentation time. Good management is what's important. Most of you honey will usually get eaten in about 10 days or so and then it slows down a good bit. 2 weeks, plus or minus is normal. Some strains are slower. And the colder you run your temps the slower your batch will go. Slow is good.

    Adding your potassium carbonate to control your pH from dropping too low is ok to do. But some would say to not add anything you don't need until you actually do need it. Counting bubbles really won't give you much info. Your airlock will bubble for weeks after the fermentation is over. So you really need to buy a hydrometer if you want to do well making mead.
    Thanks again. Going to mve the fermenter to a cooler spot. Somewhere that's around 67-68 degrees. Will update with the next hydrometer reading this evening.

  12. #12

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    Update:
    Last night- SG @1.104, PH @ 3.1 - added approx .25g FermK, and approx .25g of Potassium Carbonite. Moved PH to 3.5. Degassed/Aerated
    Tonight - SG @ 1.092, PH @ 3.4 - No additions, just degassed/aerated. Probably looking at my final add of FermK (.5g or slightly less) in the morning at 1/3rd break (1.089) and just degassing daily from there for the next. Then leave it be until target FG of 1.006

  13. #13

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    pH swings happen earlier in the process. You would have been fine to not add the carb to raise the pH. It's not accurate what everyone say about pH stalls under 3.2 pH. It's just not true. It's misinformation.

    Every mead is different, but, the higher the pH the further away from (best flavors) you go. I would suggest to not add the buffer unless you stall.
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

  14. #14

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    Crap. Just finished the next maintenance and did add a wee bit of Pot-Carb before reading this. Moved it from 3.1 to 3.4 PH. Won't touch the pot carb anymore, unless as you say, it stalls. I seriously doubt this batch will stall.
    Keeping the temp at around 65 degrees. Today the SG was at 1.085. Added less than .5g of Fermaid-K. Thinking this is last of that too. Aerated/degassed. Will switch to only daily degassing and get the hydro readings until target of 1.006 is reached.

  15. #15

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    Still chugging along nicely. Yesterday I just gave it a quick stir. Didn't get hydo reading. Today I degassed/aerated and have an SG of 1.065 and PH at 3.3. Since I'm now past the 1/3 sugar break, I'm just going to let this run it's course for the next few days with occasional degassing/stirring and watching the SG.

  16. #16

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    Ok, getting near to the end of fermentation. Have moved from an SG of 1.053 on Friday to 1.035 today. Broke my hydrometer in the sink on Sunday so had to buy more. Yes, I got 2 so that never happens again :-)
    So I'm nearing decision time. Do I try to stop it at my target of 1.004-6 by cold crashing for a few days then racking onto a stabilizer solution of 1/8 tsp of metabisulfite and 1/2 tsp sorbate? Or should I let this go further? Guess the EC1118 is not gonna want to stop easily. If I let it go to .998 or so, I'm assuming it will become very dry, and I'd want to back sweeten at some point.
    Comments and suggestions are much appreciated!!!!

  17. #17

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    If it were me I would run it dry and then stabilize it. It's easier to accomplish if there is no food for the little ones to eat. Then once your stabilize you can add honey to your desired FG. This method is very reliable and exact. The other one is like shooting at a moving target in the dark.
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squatchy View Post
    If it were me I would run it dry and then stabilize it. It's easier to accomplish if there is no food for the little ones to eat. Then once your stabilize you can add honey to your desired FG. This method is very reliable and exact. The other one is like shooting at a moving target in the dark.
    Thank you and taking your advise Squatchy. Letting it run it's full course. I'm a little surprised that here on day 17 it's chewing down. I did have it at 64 degrees for a few days and may that slowed it? Here's how it's been going:

    5/19: SG - 1.053 PH 3.4
    5/25: SG - 1.044 PH 3.3
    5/26: SG - 1.032 PH 3.3
    5/29: SG - 1.018 PH 3.2

    I have been degassing once daily expect for this weekend as I was away.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Spain, Europe
    Posts
    718

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightWolf View Post
    Thank you and taking your advise Squatchy. Letting it run it's full course. I'm a little surprised that here on day 17 it's chewing down. I did have it at 64 degrees for a few days and may that slowed it? Here's how it's been going:

    5/19: SG - 1.053 PH 3.4
    5/25: SG - 1.044 PH 3.3
    5/26: SG - 1.032 PH 3.3
    5/29: SG - 1.018 PH 3.2

    I have been degassing once daily expect for this weekend as I was away.
    Well hiya there.
    Your long batch might be related to low and innadecuate nutrient additions.
    It's still being discussed if adding nutrients past the 1/3 sugar break is good or if its better to add all of the nutrients before the 1/3.
    Also i think you might be adding too little nutrients (i have not run the numbers but keep reading). Next time you'll be way better off using this formulas http://www.meadmaderight.com/tiosna--inorganic-.html
    That being said, the added nutrients are better than anything so you might be safe. Longer fermentations dont mean worse ones. In fact with TOSNA and TiOSNA you get farily long ferments. You nutrients are better than nothing, but i still think its not the best you can do. So read that for next time . It might take you some time to understand everything. To help a bit, here is a brix-SG calculator that i use https://www.brewersfriend.com/brix-converter/
    Let us know how this turns up!

    Edit: you said something about TOSNA but you are using fermaid K wich is not organic but mix of organic and inorganic, and in both TOSNA and TiOSNA you add all the nutrients before the 1/3 and you dont add nutrients the first day so im not sure what you read. Anyway, meadmaderight is the TOSNA website so... refer to that in the future.

  20. #20

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    Edit: you said something about TOSNA but you are using fermaid K wich is not organic but mix of organic and inorganic, and in both TOSNA and TiOSNA you add all the nutrients before the 1/3 and you dont add nutrients the first day so im not sure what you read. Anyway, meadmaderight is the TOSNA website so... refer to that in the future.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the input Dadux. I did err when I pitched by adding the nutrients right up front. I have read the links you supplied and updated my notes for the next go.
    Today it's at SG 1.008. Took a taste and it was pretty good! From an amateur's pov anyway :-)

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