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Thread: Temperatures

  1. #1

    Default Temperatures

    So, I got a thing going around and around in my head.

    Where I live, in this time of the year, the temperatures usually go from 15-20ºC inside the house. Is this a problem for the yeast?
    I'm planning to make 2 one-gallon batches in the beggining of February, but I'm afraid they will go bad because of the cold weather... is this a problem? Or the yeast will be fine if I store my vessels on a dark place (like a closet, for example)?

    If so, what is the best yeast for cold seasons? I mean, that one that's more resiliant to cold.

    Thank you in advance!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Brookline, NH
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    Default

    So, the real question is, what yeast do you have access to? Then do a Google (or whatever search engine you use) search on the technical specifications for those yeasts.

    Example:

    EC-1118: 45-95° F (7-35° C) alcohol tolerance 18%
    K1-V1116: 59-86° F (15-30° C) alcohol tolerance 18%
    D47: 59°-68° F (15° -20° C) Alcohol Tolerance 14%
    71B-1122: 59-89° F (15-° 30C) Alcohol Tolerance: 14%
    Red Star Cote Des Blancs: 64-86 F (17.5° -30° C) Alcohol Tolerance: 12-14%

    Also, I think most will advise you to ferment in the lower part of the range (i.e. 16.5 to 19 C). It will be slower, but you will avoid fusels created by a too hot fermentation.
    Last edited by darigoni; 12-31-2017 at 11:31 AM.

  3. #3

    Default

    Oh that was really useful info! thanks!!

    One of the batches is going to be JAOM, is 15ºC a good temp for it?
    The other one I'll be using the Crossmyloof Mead Yeast (sold on ebay), so I still got to check the its temp toolerance.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Saratoga Springs , NY
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    1,378

    Default

    You can always engineer the temperature with a heat belt or pad or by buying an aquarium heater and standing your fermenter in a large dish-washing bowl or bucket or kettle filled with water. If you are concerned about too high a temperature you can purchase a thermal control switch (I use Inkbird) that will switch off the heater if the temperature goes higher than the one you have set on the controller... and it switches the heater back on again when the temp in the water drops below the low temperature setting.. Remember - YOU are in charge here - not the environment...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
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    Brookline, NH
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    That's actually kind of cool for a JAOM. Joe actually states "room temperature" (around 20C to 24C), but its very happy at 27C.

  6. #6

    Default

    Bernard, I think that is really out of hand for me. And since I'm just starting, I want to keep things simple. But I'll keep your advices in mind!!

    Darigoni, what is the worst that could happen if the temp was too low?

  7. #7
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    Jun 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpereira98 View Post
    Bernard, I think that is really out of hand for me. And since I'm just starting, I want to keep things simple. But I'll keep your advices in mind!!

    Darigoni, what is the worst that could happen if the temp was too low?
    I think Bernard was just trying to tell you that there are always options when it comes to temperature control. Maybe wrap your jug with a heating pad and then a blanket. Turn the pad on when you see that the temperature drops (you'll need some kind of thermometer, that makes it easy to read and track the temperature). Try and keep the temperature between 21 to 28C.

    If that's not going to work for you, then you might not want to make a JAOM this time of year...

    Worst that could happen is that it does nothing and the fruit eventually starts rotting......

    There are usually warmer places in your house. A JAOM is typically left to ferment in the kitchen, maybe above your refrigerator, next to a stove or in a closet. If it's going to be out in the open, you might want to wrap it in a towel or an old t-shirt, so that it's not overly exposed to light.
    Last edited by darigoni; 12-31-2017 at 03:38 PM.

  8. #8

    Default

    Perfect chance to use D47. Especially since you can't use it in the summer because it will be too hot then
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

  9. #9

    Default

    Actually I am one who would prefer to ferment at ambient temp rather than controlling the temp if I can get away with it. This means that many of my meads are seasonal. The temps best suited for me and the yeasts I usually use are around November, Dec, Feb, March. I could ferment in Oct and April if I want to use slightly higher temp requiring yeast. Prickly pears are ripe at the end of summer and no yeast does really well at temps higher than 30C (rc212 is ok but still seems to prefer lower temps) so then I use my temp controlled fermentation chamber. Even then I probably won't use D47... Unless my test this year reveals D47 is incredible.
    From night to day the temp inside the must will vary by some degrees C depending on when I happen to ferment. This means that a variation of 1C happens over the course of hours and hours... Meanwhile if I temp controlled, the temp would still vary 1C over that time unless I set the temp controller in a very strict region. However, even then it's hard to control precisely. This is how it works.: I have 54 liters of must fermenting. That large volume of liquid takes a long time to vary in temp even with a temp controller. This means that my probe will show 20C even when the fridge is at 15, 10... freezing with ice formations! Finally the fridge stops working but it takes time for the chamber to lose that cold. This means that the must will go below my strict region I set it in, sometimes varying by 3C.
    This happens in a short time rather than during a whole day like it would usually at ambient temp. I.e. by strictly controlling the temp am am varying the must's temp as much as or MAYBE the same amount as leaving it at ambient temp. I've found that the best solution is to leave it in a room where the temp remains the most stable. Besides, I'm not even sure such small variations over a long period of time would cause harm. I doubt I'll be able to taste the difference. If you have small batches you could set your temp controller within a very narrow region and control the temp more or less precisely but I am skeptical of the benefit unless you have a house with quite unstable temps
    "Shouldn’t we say wine is a mead-like beverage made with grapes substituted for the honey?" - Steve Piatz

  10. #10

    Default

    I can't provide references ATM. But I have read in more than one place that constant temps are better than large swings in the temp over time. As Stasis has said. Larger bodies of liquid respond slower to temp changes than do small volumes. I suggest if you are doing small batches place them in something that can contain more liguid. Bath tub, or similar kids baby pool ect.
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

  11. #11

    Default

    So I'm looking at the maltese weather reports and the high and low temperatures are mostly 4C apart. sometimes it goes to 6 (once this week), sometimes as low as 3. The temperature inside the house sees even smaller swings.. So if on a very bad day there's a 4C swing inside the house (and I doubt this happens but oh well) then that's 1C in 6 hrs on average. Now if you have a large body of liquid it should be less.
    I think temp spikes are more likely to happen due to different phases and nutrient additions. probably aerating the must makes a sudden change in temp when you consider ambient temp is always lower than the must temp. This means that I might have been wrong to argue about temp swings simply by looking at room temperatures. Coming to think of it I don't recall anyone argue about temp swings because of the environment created by the yeast themselves rather than because of the environment of the room.
    While I might have a very stable temp room that varies 2C per day, the mead must will have temps all over the place especially at the start of ferment. Sometimes because of honey or juice additions, sometimes because of nutrient additions creating spikes, sometimes because of changes in phase (lag-growth-stationary) sometimes because of aeration. Bernard had a point even if he did not realize exactly why and this is because a temp controller would just simply work more during a spike in activity and less during additions or a trailing off of activity and thus might keep temps more constant.
    However, I bet these large variations are more likely to happen with nutrients other than fermaid O and tosna. Tosna seems to provide a much more constant ferment.

    TLDR: Bernard might have had a point. Be careful if fermenting at ambient temp. While it might be tricky I am not yet convinced it's inferior to strict temp controlled though. I suspect this is something you'd have to test side by side to discover which method is best
    "Shouldn’t we say wine is a mead-like beverage made with grapes substituted for the honey?" - Steve Piatz

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squatchy View Post
    I can't provide references ATM. But I have read in more than one place that constant temps are better than large swings in the temp over time. As Stasis has said. Larger bodies of liquid respond slower to temp changes than do small volumes. I suggest if you are doing small batches place them in something that can contain more liguid. Bath tub, or similar kids baby pool ect.
    How large a swing and over how much time?
    "Shouldn’t we say wine is a mead-like beverage made with grapes substituted for the honey?" - Steve Piatz

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stasis View Post
    How large a swing and over how much time?
    I don't remember Stasis. Sorry. The swings they said were bad were in the course of a 24 hour time period. But I do remember it would be better to store/age our stuff at a higher temp than have a fluctuating temp.

    I find that in regards to your post just above that O is the least temp changing YAN source and if we put the smaller vessel we ferment in a larger water container it helps the temps in the smaller vessels stay more consistent. I recently bought a temp controlled stainless conical. Prior to this, I have been using trashcans in a basement bathtub. It was easy to keep my temps very stable in thje tub.

    I recently did a side by side pyment must. Split it in half. One was tub method and the other was 10 degrees lower in my fermenter. 60F and 50F. The differences were appreciable at first. After a few months, they started drifting towards each other.Now after a few months time. I am just going to blend then together.
    Maybe a 10 degree split somewhere higher up the ladder would end up being even more different. I suppose at some point you would find a large disparity.
    7 out of 4 people have a hard time using their hydrometer!

  14. #14

    Default

    I wasn't even referring to having a large disparity. I was referring to waiting for the right time to ferment. So if I want to ferment something between 15C and 20C I would wait until late November more or less. If I were to temp control the same must I would still set the controller somewhere between 15 and 20C. The only difference would be that perhaps the temp controlled batch would have less variations but both would have the same average temp. In such a case I don't think fermenting in a large vessel or in a large bath would create an appreciable difference in taste if you take proper care.
    In every case I always think you should ferment in the conditions you want. As Bernard said you're in control. If you cannot control something then maybe you should look into buying a temp controller when you want to refine your craft
    "Shouldn’t we say wine is a mead-like beverage made with grapes substituted for the honey?" - Steve Piatz

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