First timer. Please help. When to rack and other tips.

So here is a paste of a reply from another thread.

You have not started well with this batch, unfortunately. Youtube is a crappy place to learn to make mead.

Look up gotmeadlive podcast and start on 9/5/17

You will learn how to make mead from the very first step all the way to the end.




So "real secondary fermentation" is most likely a term that comes from winemaking. For certain wines the do a malolactic fermentation once the primary is over. They do this to lessen the acidic profile of reds mostly. And perhaps a few fruit wines. We don't do this. So generally when someone speaks of secondary. They are referring to the time after it has been racked over from the primary vessel to a new vessel in order to remove the must from the gross lees on the bottom of the primary vessel. Lots of winemakers still rack before the gravity has dropped to zero. They do this because they are afraid of off flavors happening when all the lees pile up on the bottom of the vessel. Wine generally has more particulates in the must from all of the grape parts and pieces. Than does most meads. However certain meads can also have a good bit of detritus as well. When the yeast gets buried alive at the bottom of your vessel they get sick and eventually die. This can cause stress and make off flavors. The wine people are so afraid of this they rack too soon in my estimation.I hear of stalled fermentations every day over in the wine forums and FB groups. This will usually happen because they are removing the must from the biomass that is needed to finish the job. Imagine if you sent all of your soldiers home close to the last stages of the war and left no one there to finish fighting.

So this is why I advocate rousing the yeast up until it's time to stop stirring your yeast into suspension. When we do this. We are allowing the yeast access to the sugars and to the YAN and O2 in the must. They will continue on as happy campers because they are not being buried alive at the bottom of a bucket or a conical fermenter. By allowing the yeast more time they can go to a place where there are no more sugars to assimilate into alcohol. Leave them in even longer and it is believed that they act as sponges and absorb some of the things we used to age our stuff to get rid of. And I believe they also consume other fractions of what gets made during fermentation. I call this the cleanup zone. Much like cleaning up a construction site once most of the rough stuff has been takin care of.

I am a fan of allowing the yeast an even longer time frame to stay in my meads to create more mouthfeel, more volume, sometimes depending on the strain. And it will also help to control oxidative issues in the must for a while. And if left long enough. The yeast will eventually explode due to enzymes they produce. In doing so they spill their guts into the mead creating even more tactile nuances in one's mead. Along with adding to the flavor profile as well.

Now in order to be able, you need to be aware of a few things. First and formost. If your must has had any problems with reduction. Or if you have had issues with H2S, or any other smells or off flavors. You will do good to get the mead off the lees as soon as you get to zero, or they tap out to an ABV level that makes them dormant. Those types of issues can actually bind molecularly and become permanently fixed if left unaddressed for very long. Your best bet is to stir the hell out of your must to push away the problems as soon as you start to get them.

If you have had a clean ferment. You can take advantage of the extended time with the yeast if you do a few things. First off you won't want to sit on fruit particulates for very long as they can become spoiled and give off vegetal notes. The lower the temps the longer you can sit on the fruit. Most of the time 2 weeks is plenty to extract all the fruit goodies if added after the fermentation has been stabilized. This next piece holds true in any category of mead but I will speak to it in a trad for this purpose of explanation.

Once you stop stirring the very heaviest particulates fall out of suspension first. This is what is referred to as rough lees. I would suggest to rack off the rough lees for sure if you want to extend your time on the fine lees. The fine lees are much cleaner than all the heavier particulates in the rough lees. They (the rough) will be more inclined to get putrid at a much sooner point than will the fine lees. So get rid of them within a couple weeks of when the ferment is finished. Remember though. We want to keep everything roused in suspension so they won't get rotten on the bottom.

Some strains have a long history of extended time in a must. The first thing that comes to mind is Chapagne. And some white wine styles. Cy3079 is the fastest one to autolyze and starts to happen around 4 months. Whereas all the other strains start around the 8-9 month timeline. I have had great success when I barrel age trads with fine lees in the barrel for many months. The texture is very lush and creamy smooth. And often times has more volume. But keep in mind. The biggest contributor to mouthfeel comes as a byproduct of certain yeast strains. Some add mid-palate volume. Some add it at the foremouth.

This is somewhat sparse in specifics. But should help to explain a good bit about racking. Never ever is it a time issue controlled by a clock or calender. But instead. It is dictated to us by the particulates of every batch. No two batches are ever the same. Even if we are doing our very best to duplicate things. After all. We are dealing with a living biomas

That's a lot of good info squatchy. I could save that to a file and use it for reference.
The short answer which will get you through these few days is:
If it's bubbling you usually don't want to rack. If there are lees on the bottom you usually want to keep those in suspension. Emphasis on usually. Things change according to the batch and for new mazers what you should do can be even more unpredictable for us who are just seeing text on a forum.

Edit: Sparse in specifics? This guy is going to need a week or two to digest everything you said

im still new to this myself ! But Ec1118 is a pretty fast fermenter. Bubbling activity started in about 2-3 hours day for my one gallon carboys and took about 2 and a half days for my five gallon ones. You should rack when bubbling activity has slowed down to about 1 bubble per minute OR when your SG has reached the 1.000 mark on your hydrometer or close to that number. The purpose of racking is to seperate to mead from the lees. This is because the dead yeast can leave off flavours on the mead if leaved for a very long time. I usually rack not less than 30 days but not more than 45. The purpose of bottling is in the word itself...to transfer the mead to bottles. Also never bottle cloudy mead and make sure fermentation has stopped completely or you canhave some pretty ugly consequences !

Welcome, maninfire. I hope you found the answers you were looking for. It sounds like you have a tasty batch fermenting there. I’m no expert but it sounds like your yeast will tap out around 18% alcohol by volume and there will still be some residual sugar in there so’ll you’ll have some sweetness still. Is that what you’re going for?

I also watched a lot of YouTube when I first started. Some are entertaining but not informative. And even the informative ones sometimes gave bad info. Check out the NewBee guide here and the podcasts that Squatchy mentioned.

Stasis said:

Edit: Sparse in specifics? This guy is going to need a week or two to digest everything you said

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That’s perfect. In a week or two the mead might be ready to rack

maltesemeadmaker said:

im still new to this myself ! But Ec1118 is a pretty fast fermenter. Bubbling activity started in about 2-3 hours day for my one gallon carboys and took about 2 and a half days for my five gallon ones. You should rack when bubbling activity has slowed down to about 1 bubble per minute OR when your SG has reached the 1.000 mark on your hydrometer or close to that number.

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Depending on the airlock and how well the seal is, there may be no bubble activity weeks before fermentation is complete. As you said, use your hydrometer!


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maninfire said:

Thanks everyone for all the information. Sadly I didn't see these messages before I decided to rack.
I took more readings. My current readings are 11% 20 Brix 1.080
From what I understand its at about 9.8% abv
Since racking, the yeast has slowed down its bubbling to about once every 25 seconds.
The airlock doesn't seem to want to stay pushed in all the way down. Is there a way to fix this? Is that why my bubbling has slowed?
When I racked I also removed all the raisins should I add some in again?
There seems to be some small amount of bubbly foam on top now and I have no idea if that is normal or what to do in this situation.
Once again, Thanks for all the help!

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1.080 is insanely high for an FG. You may want to pitch more yeast and ferment again. 1.030 is considered dessert level sweetness, for reference. Usually people try to ferment down to 1.000 or less and then backsweeten, but if you can get your gravity down to 1.020 or lower I think you’ll be much happier in the end.

Your bubbling rate doesn’t matter at all, but the reason why it has slowed is because by racking you have removed the must from the yeast biomass. Therefore there isn’t a population to continue eating sugar and make alcohol.

Did you add raisins for mouthfeel or for nutrients? If for nutrients, they provide little to none, so adding more won’t really do anything other than add a very small amount of raisin flavor and contribute positively to mouthfeel. That’s if I understand raisins correctly, I don’t use them.

That bubbly foam is probably Krausen, which is a normal byproduct of fermentation and a sign the yeast are actively eating. However without seeing it it’s hard to know if it’s Krausen or an infection that will cause off flavors in your mead.

I’m a NewBee too but those are some things I believe I know pretty well. Best thing you can do is treat this as a learning experience. Listen to the podcast to learn the best practices for making mead, try to find where you can improve, and try again with your newfound knowledge!



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I don’t think you need to pitch more yeast just yet. If it’s still bubbling then based on what you put in, I’m guessing that’s fermentation taking place and not some other kind of off gassing. The only way to know for sure is to measure the gravity again in a day or two. If it continues to fall, then the yeast are still fermenting.

I agree with Valcarion about the raisins. You don’t need them.

As for the bung & airlock not staying down, I had the same problem. Try sanitizing the bung and the inside of the neck on the carboy, then drying both with a clean towel. Mine were sliding up because they were wet and slippery.

I don’t think you did any damage by racking early. You just caused this to take longer because there are fewer yeast working, you lost some mead volume from racking, and there are some characteristics you could have gotten from leaving the lees in there (not an expert on that). And of course any time you open up you risk contamination.

But overall I think you’re fine. Just give it more time.

maninfire said:

The airlock doesn't seem to want to stay pushed in all the way down. Is there a way to fix this?

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Most likely it's because the stopper and/or neck of your jug/carboy is damp. Use a clean paper towel to dry both of them.

You seem to to be making all the mistakes newbee makes, so you REALLY need to read the gotmead NewBee guide (see link at top of webpage). Check out the 9 episode Meadology course on YouTube and pay particular attention to episdodes 6 and 7.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEUA9sOZJbckxRlIRaAyUw6jg2Zlrgko7

Once you've got a little understanding about mead, you need to listen to gotmead podcasts on Modern Mead Making, starting at week Sept 5th, 2017.

maltesemeadmaker said:

im still new to this myself ! But Ec1118 is a pretty fast fermenter. Bubbling activity started in about 2-3 hours day for my one gallon carboys and took about 2 and a half days for my five gallon ones. You should rack when bubbling activity has slowed down to about 1 bubble per minute OR when your SG has reached the 1.000 mark on your hydrometer or close to that number. The purpose of racking is to seperate to mead from the lees. This is because the dead yeast can leave off flavours on the mead if leaved for a very long time. I usually rack not less than 30 days but not more than 45. The purpose of bottling is in the word itself...to transfer the mead to bottles. Also never bottle cloudy mead and make sure fermentation has stopped completely or you canhave some pretty ugly consequences !

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2 and a half days for bubbling activity is quite a long time. But then again bubbling activity doesn't mean too much. Finding when the yeast have moved out of lag phase is much more meaningful. The yeast move out of lag phase at the first signs of life. Moving out of lag phase is more meaningful because it marks when we can use nutrients like dap. Doesn't make too much of a difference for nutrients like fermaid O.
Deciding to rack off the lees when bubbling reaches 1 bubble per minute also has little meaning since if you have a sluggish or stuck ferment the SG could still be very high. In such a case we need to take measures to help the yeast along rather than decimating their population by racking them.
The part of the dead yeast leaving off flavors could or could not be true. Check Squatchy's post for more details. For new mazers such as the OP I would suggest racking off the lees since it is less risky than having bad sur lie management.
About bottling: Ferment should have stopped completely but you should also make sure that you stabilize the mead unless it is very very dry. Unless it's quite below 1.000 there's a risk of a restarted ferment in the bottle. At 1.000 or slightly below you can get effervescence, at higher gravities it gets more serious.

P.s Hi from Malta