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Thread: Oak Barrel Suppliers

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Default Oak Barrel Suppliers

    I found a guy in San Pedro with new White Oak 55 gallon barrels for about 265 which is a good price for what I've seen so far.

    I'll get his information and post it up this week.

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  2. Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    From what I've read about barrels, I'd rather not use them. I've had good luck with oak chips and they're not that expensive.


    Phil

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    What have you heard about barrels that would put you off??

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  4. Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    Barrels are high maintenance. Once you fill them, you can't let them stay empty for any long periods of time. If you're not using it, you have to keep it filled with water, or water and vodka to prevent bacterial growth. I forgot the proper way of sanitizing them, but it has something to do with sulphur candles, or something. And don't you have to shave the insides down every now and then?

    Even if only a couple of these are true, I'll stick with wood chips.


    Phil

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    We've had a couple of oak barrels in the family for a long time and while there is maintenance involved, it is not really as bad as it is made out to be.

    You do need to keep them full when you're not using them, you use sulfur sticks to sanitize them, and from time to time (over the course of several years) you do need to have them treated by a good cooper.

    The effect of oak on wine is indisputable, and based on my experience with mead the same seems to be true. Making a batch large enough to fill a barrel is challenging for many people, but I'm sure the pay off is worth it.

    Maintaining a barrel is really no more difficult than maintaining several carboys, it's a matter of following very simple steps of cleaning, sanitizing, filling, storing and tapping the barrel. It does require a bit more skill and experience to keep the barrels in good order, but it is nothing that a good brewer cannot do with a minimal of effort.

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  6. Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    Have you ever used wood chips in your batches (smaller batches)? I find them extremely convenient and have good luck with them in beer and mead.


    Phil

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    Sorry I should have clarified what I was saying.

    Yes, I use Oak cubes all the time. They are very convinient. We use the oak barrels for the wine my dad and I make. They've been in the family for a long time so they're kind of like heirlooms. It's kind of our way of honoring and paying tribute to my Grandpa and "Uncles" who got us started on winemaking and beer brewing. The influence of the wood on the wine is incredible and very much increases the structure and complexity of the wine.

    I haven't used the oak barrels for the mead, and probably never will because they are conditioned for red wine. Once I do get one for mead, I'll be making a big batch to fill the barrel.

    Oak chips are great, I do like the cubes better (just personal taste). We have also used oak chips in winemaking, and the effect on the wine is not as profound as is the aging in barrels, which is why I want to get a barrel for my meads.

    Cheers,

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  8. Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    I am planning to buy a used whiskey barrel right after it is decanted. Will post more details when it occurs.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    I'd be interested in hearing about that. This guy at Marabella Vinyards in San Pedro, CA has used whiskey barrels for $75 and they look to be in pretty good shape.

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    OK,

    Here's the Marabella Vineyards information that I promised to post. Sorry for the delay, I got busy and had to re-prioritize my schedule.

    Marabella Vineyards
    344 West 8th Street
    San Pedro, CA 90731
    Phone: 310-833-9783

    Wine and beer supplies, grape juice & wine grapes, crushers, presses, oak barrels, etc. It's a great Mom and Pop shop in San Pedro, California. They're Italian and their family has been making wine for several generations, most recently here in California.

    These are the kinds of places that I like to patronize because it is the small family run kind of place. They're a cash or check only operation. Here's a good example of how they work. When I bought my wine-grape juice to make wine from them, they undercharged me by $16. Terese called me up and apologized for bothering me and let me know that they had undercharged me. She said it was fine to either bring it by the next time I was in the area. I told her I could mail it, and she said that was OK too, but there was no rush.

    It's a great thing to have people like this still in the business.

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    For affordable reconditioned barrels, check out www.recoop.net They have an excellent web site, and their products look very interesting.

    David Baldwin
    Michigan Meadery LLC

    www.michiganmeadery.com

  12. Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    I don't know...and I mean that literally - I don't know.
    I have access to great barrels that have been used by local Napa wineries. These are barrels that had four months of use since new, and the wineries consider them shot - of no further value.

    Most good wineries use new oak for about four months, and then move the wine to older barrels for extended aging. This blends out the roughness of the new oak. But the point is they don't do even this treatment more than once with a barrel because they say the oak is gone. Sure, maybe if you really let something sit in it for a very long time it will still take on oak, but repeatedly? Not according to the various Napa winemakers I've talked with. Tomorrow I leave for a forty winery tasting, and I'll be meeting with various of the winemasters and inquire on this.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    We've had a couple of barrels in the family for a while and maintaining them is fairly simple. We had them re-conditioned and we use the reconditioned ones as nuetral storage for wine. Although now that my parent's and aunts and uncles are older we're not making the volume of wine that we used to.

    Re-conditioning of barrels is fine, but it's definately not anywhere near putting a barrel back to it's original state, and infusion potential of those oak characteristics into your mead/wine. In California we have the great luxury of being around so many wineries that there are a pretty good supply of low cost barrels that have been used in aging everything from Auslese to Zinfandel and the price is right.

    Many barrel manufacturers recommend using barrels for a maximum of 5 years. During the first 2 years, barrels infuse large quantities of aromatic compounds into your wines/meads, vanilla, eugenol, and methyloctalactones, adding spicy and vanilla nuances.

    During the next 3 years, the barrels still offer a good capacity for aerating the mead/wine but most of the aromatic compounds have been used up. From what I've read when a small barrel is over 5 years old, it no longer makes a helpful contribution to the wine during aging (sedimentation, heat convection, etc) and the very importantly the oxidation process may be blocked by tartrate deposits.

    Hope that helps,

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  14. Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    Was thinking about getting one of these from morebeer: http://www.morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=19642According to their catalog, they have a 5 gallon version of this but it's not on their site. Hopefully they still carry them.

    Oscaar, what's your opinion on these? How long do you think a 5 gallon version of this would remain useful in oaking the mead, seeing as how the surface to oak ration would be different than a large 55 gallon barrel.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    Reading the description at morebeer.com it seems that they might use the recoop.net barrels linked above. Process description is the same. The barrels at recoop.net says free shipping in the cont. US, cost is $25 more at recoop.net but the free shipping might more than make up for it, plus they offer one additional level of toast (medium minus).

    wrathwilde

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    Hey Norsk,

    Well the smaller the barrel the less time you should leave your mead in it. If it was me, I'd save up and get a new barrel, French Oak (Limousin or Nevers), Medium toast by a good barrel maker. They're not cheap, but they're well worth it.

    Also there is a debate about reconditioned barrels regarding retoasting. Many coopers believe that retoasting does not give satisfactory results. In a 50 gallon barrel there are about a gallon and a half of wine adsorbed by the staves that comprise the barrel. Apparently in that 1.5 gallons of adsorbed wine there are substances (tannin, tartaric acid, etc) that when retoasted are converted into compounds that give the wine tarry and burnt rubber odors, commonly referred to as "burnt character."

    So that's why I would go for a used barrel before a re-conditioned barrel.

    Hope that helps,

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  17. Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    Interesting. Glad I asked you. Ok, I will think about getting a new barrel instead. Morebeer carries new french barrels for about $50 more, but I didn't really consider it because I would rather have American judging by what I've read.

    Anybody know where I can buy new, 5 gallon, American oak barrels?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    Hey Norsk,

    A lot of times you'll see wineries put their young wine into American Oak barrels first, and then into French Oak for longer infusion times.

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    If y'all are looking for large barrells, don't forget that Scott Pirtle at Pirtle Winery has some, and for a pretty good price. Had I not flown out there a couple weeks ago, I would have gotten one. I think that the airlines woulda had a cow if I'd tried to check a barrel tho!

    Vicky - finishing the last touches on the pool supply site from Hell, and doing interesting things on the new Redstone meadery site....
    Wassail!

    Vicky Rowe
    Owner & Webmistress, Gotmead.com
    Executive Director, American Mead Makers Association
    http://www.mead-makers.org
    Making Mead since 1995

  20. #20

    Default Re: Oak Barrel Suppliers

    I haven't quite succumbed to oak barrels, sorry, . I usually use chips or cubes. I'll definitely will be using barrels when I start distilling .

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