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Thread: Yet another sorbate question

  1. Default Yet another sorbate question

    i made this batch of light cyser and when i reached sg 1.016 i popped it to the fridge for 3 days.

    then on 01-01-05 while 38 degrees, i racked to secondary, on top of 5 tsp of sulfate solution and 3 3/4 tsp of sorbate.

    now i do understand birth control as i too have been nutered, but

    it's still bubbling away at the rate of 2 blurps per minute.

    sg is now down to 1.013

    what gives? isn't that a bit long for it to still be going?

    should i do something else, i don't want anymore baby yeasties!

    should i add more sorbate?

    5 gals fresh cider
    5 1/2 # clover honey
    2 1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
    kiv-1116
    sg 1.090

    pretty simple but it won't or dosen't seem to be slowing down. i have just a 8th inch of lees on the bottom.

    mucho thanko
    skunk


  2. Default Re: Yet another sorbate question

    another question, does sorbate only work after the yeast has reached it alcohol limit, or will it work when you cold stabilize well below it's kill zone?

  3. Default Re: Yet another sorbate question

    How long has it been fermenting. You said the date you racked it, but you didn't say the day you started fermentation.

  4. Default Re: Yet another sorbate question

    i pitched the yeast and it took 7 days to go from 1.090 to 1.016

    for about 10 - 10 1/2 % alcohol, as thats what i wanted.

    so to stop it i put it in the fridge for 3 days at 37.8 degrees.

    i then racked it (cold) on to the sorbate and sulfate

    it has now been 5 days since that and is at 69 - 70 degrees and is still working at 2 bubbles per minute.

    now the sg is at 1.013

    so what gives? isn't that a bit long for it to still be going?

    should i do something else, should i add re-chill and add more sorbate?

  5. Default Re: Yet another sorbate question

    So your mead is about 2 weeks old... Isn't the shortest length of maturing mead 3 weeks?
    In my humble expert (cough-cough... since sept 04) I think you've got several more weeks to go. I'm not counting on my meads being done in less than 3 Months.

    Suzy Q

  6. Default Re: Yet another sorbate question

    it's not mature, i stopped it at 10% acohol

    it took 1 stinking week to get to the content i wanted it, then i stopped it.

    10% alcohol brix 3.7

    i don't intend on drinking this for 127 years

    i just want to stop it at where i like

    10% alcohol brix 3.7

    pretty simple, but the sorbate did not stop it.

    i pitched the yeast and it took 7 days to go from 1.090 to 1.016

    for about 10 - 10 1/2 % alcohol, as thats what i wanted.

    so to stop it i put it in the fridge for 3 days at 37.8 degrees.

    i then racked it (cold) on to the sorbate and sulfate

    it has now been 5 days since that and is at 69 - 70 degrees and is still working at 2 bubbles per minute.

    now the sg is at 1.013

    so what gives? isn't that a bit long for it to still be going?

    should i do something else, should i add re-chill and add more sorbate?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Yet another sorbate question

    I didn't see your mention of type of yeast, but I may have missed it... Dyslexia is such a wonderful thing to have...

    Because you're having difficulty with stopping it, I'd gather that you used Lalvin EC-1118, correct?

    I've no great experience with this beast other than that it's really difficult to stop... You may have to put your carboy in the freezer and really kill off the beasties...

    Talon.

  8. Default Re: Yet another sorbate question

    i used kiv-1116, i did put it back in the fridge @ 38 degress till i find an answer. i really gon't understand how this cold thing seems to work for oskaar but not for me.

    i guess he must drink it before it has a chance to warm back up.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Yet another sorbate question

    Quote Originally Posted by Idahoskunk
    i made this batch of light cyser and when i reached sg 1.016 i popped it to the fridge for 3 days. then on 01-01-05 while 38 degrees, i racked to secondary, on top of 5 tsp of sulfate solution and 3 3/4 tsp of sorbate. now i do understand birth control as i too have been nutered, but it's still bubbling away at the rate of 2 blurps per minute. sg is now down to 1.013

    what gives? isn't that a bit long for it to still be going?

    should i do something else, i don't want anymore baby yeasties!

    should i add more sorbate?

    5 gals fresh cider
    5 1/2 # clover honey
    2 1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
    kiv-1116
    sg 1.090

    pretty simple but it won't or dosen't seem to be slowing down. i have just a 8th inch of lees on the bottom.

    should i do something else, should i add re-chill and add more sorbate?

    Hey Skunk --

    KIV-1116 is a strong fermenter, alcohol tolerant and able to do well in low nitrogen musts. That's probably the difficulty here -- this yeast will keep going no matter what you do. It might be best to simply let it finish out on its own.

    The sorbate doesn't actually kill the yeast. Neither does the sulfate. You have wait until the yeasties are no longer active, than the sorbate and sulfate will be able to do their work, i.e., keep the yeasties from becoming active again.

    Here's a few URL's on sorbate:

    http://www.fallbright.com/lessonSorbate_ColdStab.htm

    http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/sorbate.htm

    http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/finishin.asp

    Sorry for coming in late on this -- should have chipped something in earlier . . .

    <><><><><><><><><><>
    <><><><><><><><>
    Dan McFeeley

    "Meon an phobail a thogail trid an chultur"
    (The people's spirit is raised through culture)

  10. Default Re: Yet another sorbate question

    mcfeeley,
    very good info!! this is a definant keeper for a newbie and for my "book o facts" thank you very much!

    these three articals really put it down in black and white.

    right now i'm going to re-read these fact several time and i'm sure i can get it stopped.

    thanks again!! awesome!!!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    860

    Default Re: Yet another sorbate question

    In my first pyment - chekc the brewlog - I had some trouble stopping the fermentation.
    I was also using 1116. I reread the sorbate instructions and had only added half the sorbate I needed to. I'd also added only half the sulphite I was supposed to... Well, it went back into my carboy cooler for another 10 days at 40 degrees F. It did stop fermentation and I then I added the rest of the sorbate that should have been added at the beginning.

    That did the trick and it cleared very soon thereafter.

    David Baldwin
    Michigan Meadery LLC

    www.michiganmeadery.com

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Troy, MI
    Posts
    280

    Default Re: Yet another sorbate question

    Yo Idaho,

    I think Dan covered this pretty nicely, but here's my two cents.

    Sorbate will only work after the yeast has stopped fermenting. KV-1116 and EC-1118 are bone crushers. They will keep going until they have run out of anything to eat.

    I can't speak as a microbiologist, but my understanding of the way sorbates work is that they hold down the "on" switch (in the "off" position) for an enzymatic process needed to move the yeast into the anaerobic fermentation mode. But if that switch is already on, only the yeast itself can turn it off - when it either reaches ETOH tolerance, or runs out of food. That is, save for actually going with the nuclear option (killing the poor beasties).

    Refrigeration will slow their little metabolisms down, but it won't flip the switch. The best way to hit target sweetness/alcohol balance is with recipe formulation and yeast selection, or (my second choice) backsweetening.

    I hope this helps.

    Yours,
    Ken
    It's time for some woodshedding, Willie Mae. The blue light was my blues, and the red light was my mind.

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