For all you sanitization freaks :d

[Midnight Sun]

There isn't anything magical about the disinfectant properties of alcohol, it is just a question of concentration. Anything above 20% ABV or so is going to be too toxic for microorganisms to survive in. Less than that, the doors are open for an infection. For those that might pan sanitizing a yeast packet before opening and pitching into beer, hey be my guest and risk loosing $40-60 worth of materials. The lower alcohol level of beer makes it very susceptible to infection.

As for beer in the Middle Ages being safer than ordinary water, that is true but not because of the alcohol present. It is because beer is boiled 45-90 minutes. The United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends vigorously boiling untreated water for 1 minute, 3 minutes if above 2,000m elevation. They also state that boiling is the most effective method for making water safe to drink. If a 1 minute boil is sufficient to sanitize drinking water, then 45 minutes is most certainly going to do the trick.

Originally Posted by wiltshiremead

I think there is lot more to this yeast, bacteria business than just sanitize them all.

If you are not convinced, I think you'd better wear a mask 24/7 because I know you have just breathed in that black mold spore I can guarantee you that there is black mold spore floating in the air where you sit. Yes, it's everywhere but if you are healthy, it is all kept under check.

As Soyala said, somewhere between 75-90% of the North and South American indigenous population was wiped out by European diseases. And what about the Black Death plagues in the 1300's that killed off 1/3 of the European population? AIDS? While I certainly agree that there is more to microorganisms than simple destruction, some things will simply overwhelm the healthiest person.

[wiltshiremead]

I've made another thread if you would like to vote

[shanek17]

Originally Posted by Kelvin

OK brew in your bathroom and don't wash your hands and use dirty buckets. Fine by me. Me, I'll stick to taking precautions and trying ot make clean and good brews. Obviously you don't get everything, neither do hospitals yet they still sanitize. I wonder why? Make your stinky no dirty brews all day and drink them til your content. I'll stick with doing it right.

Okay then haha; theres no need to get offended and go on a rant about something i never said and something id never do. I was simply sharing a point of view that most do not appreciate or talk about in this hobby... I guess there too busy sanitizing something.

[shanek17]

Originally Posted by mediaguru

And on the third hand, we have the fact that the average lifespan in the middle ages was about 30-something years old, and it is now more than double that. Hygiene and sanitation have big parts to play in that fact. Our ancestors were not "going strong" -- you don't have to live long in order to reproduce. Insects live a matter of days and yet they are still "going strong"; our ancestors had babies at the age of 14 or 15 and were dead by the time they were 30.

Today, thanks to things like sanitation and modern science's understanding of what germs are, what they do, and how to avoid them, the live expectancy is up to 80-something years old in several first-world countries.

I'm not sure I'd trust drinking an unsanitized banana brew in a country where the current average life expectancy is about 50 years old.

So your argument AGAINST "our ancestors are going strong" is that we live longer now then compared to the middle ages.... Okay you need to look more into history and not just focus on the shitty middle ages, excuse my language, but there are ancestors of ours that not only thrived but were highly developed, intelligent and had a great quality of life, I would imagine their age reflected in on this as well.

[Kelvin]

Originally Posted by shanek17

So your argument AGAINST "our ancestors are going strong" is that we live longer now then compared to the middle ages.... Okay you need to look more into history and not just focus on the shitty middle ages, excuse my language, but there are ancestors of ours that not only thrived but were highly developed, intelligent and had a great quality of life, I would imagine their age reflected in on this as well.

They probably used proper sanitation techniques. Again, you want to take chances with your hard work then by all means go ahead. I fail to see why you deride people who do their best to prevent infections. What is your point? You dont care about being sanitary so anyone that does is just stupid? Is this yor point? If not then what is?

[shanek17]

Originally Posted by Kelvin

They probably used proper sanitation techniques. Again, you want to take chances with your hard work then by all means go ahead. I fail to see why you deride people who do their best to prevent infections. What is your point? You dont care about being sanitary so anyone that does is just stupid? Is this yor point? If not then what is?

I am bringing up this topic to shed more light on this, i enjoy sharing and enjoy hearing others thoughts on this stuff. Iv just noticed that when talking about sanitation most people are one sided and thats a shame when theres clearly other things to consider. I support the facts that brewing beverages already have the means to protect themselves, (for the most part). Such as having a decent alcohol percentage and using strong yeast and other good quality ingredients. Iv heard on james spencers pod cast that beer hops actually have their own way to protect the beer naturally, its also been mentioned that honey is very very very good at keeping its quality even after thousands of years. Even wine grapes have some levels of sulfites to again aid in preserving this awesome beverage. Its as if its been designed with alot of good things already ready to go..

After considering these things amongst other things iv noticed, I am just reevaluating my sanitization methods... YES i sanitize too, im simply trying to distinguish what is real here about sanitizing. IV noticed there are alot of people that are OCD about sanitizing and also that there is a huge market for sanitizers. The companies that sell them mostly stress sanitizing everything and leave the true details vague enough so that people dont know any better and simply sanitize everything all the time. For example when the alcohol has developed to a strong percent its going to be even stronger and therefore the wine has another barrier of protection. Did a sanitizing company tell me this ? NO I talked with others about it like mature adults and gathered what I felt to be real. So far Iv had some encounters where dirty accidents happen , and i worried and waited too see if the batch was spoiled and when it came bottling time they tasted great!

[Kelvin]

So? That doesn't mean that sanitizing is not needed. It doesn't mean that it won't happen. Calling someone OCD about having good sanitation practices is pretty much counter productive to a website that is about making the best mead one can. You can go without sanitizing 100 times and not have any adverse effects. That doesn't mean the next one won't. There's no reason to not be clean if you have the means to do so. And give me a break with these sanitizing companies. Iodophor is like $5.00 for 100's of gallons the same with starsan. There's absolutely no reason to be lazy and not sanitize whenever possible unless you are trying to prove some farcical point. I'll tell ya what. When SHTF and I run out of sanitizer I'll just use my homemade soap and water to clean. Until then I'll go ahead and do it the right way.

You talked to them like mature adults? Like right now? Like saying how people being OCD and implying they have issues because they like to be clean with their production? That's adult? Sounds like a high schooler arguing about cleaning his room to me.

Out of curiosity, what does this massive sterilization industry say to sanitize that you wouldn't? You are talking about your sanitizing practices... so what are you planning to stop sanitizing? Your aerator? Your spoon? Your wine thief? What? And if so why? Is it that hard to dip a wine thief into a bucket before you use it?

Why take a chance in ruining your batch? One use of starsan is like $.20 if that. A 5 gallon batch of whatever could cost $40 or $50. Not to mention time. I fail to see any good argument for not sanitizing other than foot stomping.

[Soyala_Amaya]

Kelvin, you've gone on much longer than I have and I know I said I was done, and I am with everyone else on this thread. But I DO have a response for you

http://images.fanpop.com/images/imag...96_300_336.jpg

(And yes, anyone who responds to EVERY response they get with insults and childish oversimplifications is a troll.)

[kudapucat]

Thing about trolling is: you're sure to catch SOMETHING, every time.

[Riverat]

LOL!!! Soyala

[wiltshiremead]

Thanks for calling me a troll soyaya!!!

[Penguinetti]

Originally Posted by lupilu

...

On the other, western obsession with sanitizing our environment is what made MRSA...
But I do agree that in life in general, we fear germs too much. Our ancestors lived sanitization free for literally hundreds of thousands of years and as a race we're going strong.

That's right. And you know what? I don't wash my hands after I pee. TAKE THAT MRSA!! I"M NOT AFRAID OF YOU!!!

Originally Posted by Vandall

Personally I try to be as sanitary as possible when making mead, however, the real reason for my reply is to say...

Mediaguru has 3 hands?

You don't?

[wildoates]

Originally Posted by Kelvin

Yeah, it only takes one time to get something bad. I'll stick with my constant dip and spraying in starsan.

Me too. I fear the beast, and do NOT want to waste a large amount of honey by being careless.

[Chevette Girl]

Originally Posted by Penguinetti

That's right. And you know what? I don't wash my hands after I pee. TAKE THAT MRSA!! I"M NOT AFRAID OF YOU!!!

Dude? TMI. And if we ever meet, I'm not shaking your hand.

[Penguinetti]

Originally Posted by Chevette Girl

Dude? TMI. And if we ever meet, I'm not shaking your hand.

I see... so you prefer to straight up hug it out.


I respect that.

[Chevette Girl]

Originally Posted by Penguinetti

I see... so you prefer to straight up hug it out.


I respect that.

<mumble> respect the hell outta you with a wet-wipe... icky boy... </mumble>

Just be careful, it's surprising how quickly a hug can be turned into a koshi nage (hip-throw)...

[Ettels4]

A clarification... While it is certainly questionable where and when we sanitize in the western world... MRSA prevalence is the result of artificial selection of resistant Staph. Aureus from methicillin/antibiotic use in humans. Not from sanitizing our hands/homes/hospitals or homebrew equipment.

[Soyala_Amaya]

Originally Posted by Chevette Girl

[COLOR="PurpleJust be careful, it's surprising how quickly a hug can be turned into a koshi nage (hip-throw)... [/color]

I did that to my boyfriend once during Steal the Wench...he was very shocked Shouldn't give someone with wrestling experience that much of an opening!

[Penguinetti]

Originally Posted by Chevette Girl

<mumble> respect the hell outta you with a wet-wipe... icky boy... </mumble>

Just be careful, it's surprising how quickly a hug can be turned into a koshi nage (hip-throw)...

Originally Posted by Soyala_Amaya

I did that to my boyfriend once during Steal the Wench...he was very shocked Shouldn't give someone with wrestling experience that much of an opening!

I only took 4 months of Aikido, but I wrestled for 9 years... PLUS I'm awesome at giving hugs...



...you have been warned.



Besides, I actually do wash my hands after I pee, I just felt like this thread deserved a little more nonsense.

[Riverat]

LOL, well this discussion has certainly taken life!
I will say I think we may be raising some children in so sterile an environment that the result is sometime immunologically dysfunctional adults.
I was a barefoot kid in late fifties and sixties Florida, wandering family farms, both row crop and cattle; also wandering the everglades (still barefoot) exposed to germs yet to be classified and bitten by bugs since gone extinct, I believe this to be a part of my good health and resistance to infection.
That said, I hardly see this as endorsement of wallowing in filth or failing to prepare ones food and drink in an appropriately sanitary manor.
When brewing beer I am strictly on top of sanitation, a bit less so when crafting mead. Not so much so for fear of my health, as I do get that very little that can actually harm you can live in beer and more so in mead.
But a great many things would love to take up residence in wort or must for the time it takes for them to be overcome by the yeast and the alcohol and contribute things I may not want there. If we want to develop our skills to the point of repeatability, reasonable sanitation is pretty much a given.