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Interested in starting to beekeep

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tweak'e said:
top bars is nothing to fancy. its just beekeeping without frames, just like bees do in the wild. put a swarm/nuc in an empty box and they will do the exact same thing.
over here we can't really use that approach as the frames have to be removable for disease inspection (legal requirement). with a top bar hive you would just smash the brood trying to inspect the comb.
also when you extract honey you smash the comb, so they have to make new comb each year. not necessarily a bad thing but it does waste honey.
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This is simply not true. Top bar are removable and therefore are legal in this country.

Top bar and crushing your comb is not the way to go if your commerical, but are great for the hobbyist.

You can't just throw a bunch of sticks across a box and call it a top bar hive. :rolleyes:

I would suggest you read up on types of top bar hives from people who actually uses them. Michael Bush, again is a good source.
 
mmclean said:
This is simply not true. Top bar are removable and therefore are legal in this country.

Top bar and crushing your comb is not the way to go if your commerical, but are great for the hobbyist.

You can't just throw a bunch of sticks across a box and call it a top bar hive. :rolleyes:

I would suggest you read up on types of top bar hives from people who actually uses them. Michael Bush, again is a good source.
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before you jump up and down, have a look what country i'm in :o

top bar itself isn't illegal here (in debate at the mo and possible move to ban them outright), but the fact is that you have to inspect combs twice a year and you pretty much have to break your brood combs to be able to do this, renders it somewhat pointless.
add in a beginner who wants/needs to get in a see whats going on also makes it not suitable.

no matter what country your in, its not an appropriate system to learn beekeeping with.
 
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tweak'e said:
you pretty much have to break your brood combs to be able to do this, renders it somewhat pointless.
add in a beginner who wants/needs to get in a see whats going on also makes it not suitable.

no matter what country your in, its not an appropriate system to learn beekeeping with.
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I don't care if your on the moon, the above statment is misinformation and inappropriate.

If not, could you please reference your statment
 
This will be something I'll look into thoroughly before making any decisions. Luckily I am meeting with a beekeeper in a few weeks who has both types of hive setups, so I can pick his brain about it.
 
mmclean said:
I don't care if your on the moon, the above statment is misinformation and inappropriate.

If not, could you please reference your statment
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so whats is misinformation and inappropriate ???

top bar do not make perfect straight, easily accessible comb that is easy to remove and replace without damage. thats why they are looking to ban the practice here (report in National Beekeepers' Association of New Zealand magazine), as people with top bar hives are less inclined to do disease checks to avoid damage to brood combs. (and i personally have dealt with hobbiest over this issue)

a beginner with a non-standard hive will have very few local people he/she can call onto for help. there will be very few, if any, people that are familiar with that setup. also it limits their ability to go work on other peoples hives that are different. that limits how quickly they can learn skills and gain experience.

its just a LOT quicker to learn and gain experience with standard hives and the local standard methods. theres plenty of local beekeepers to call onto for help and to work for to gain experience.
they are more than welcome to do alternatives later one once they know and understand bees.

perfect example here was the guy who poisoned a fair few people with tutin poisoning. thats simply because he read info out of a book (probably written for another country), did not join any bee clubs and did not seek any advice from other beekeepers. sold the honey illegally and very nearly killed quite a few people (only saved by a quick thinking nurse).
being a beginner and doing things out of the loop is a recipe for disaster.
 
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tweak'e said:
top bar do not make perfect straight, easily accessible comb that is easy to remove and replace without damage. thats why they are looking to ban the practice here (report in National Beekeepers' Association of New Zealand magazine), as people with top bar hives are less inclined to do disease checks to avoid damage to brood combs. (and i personally have dealt with hobbiest over this issue)
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update: the report in the latest NBA mag is that they have classed top bar hives as illegal in NZ.
 
mccann51 said:
Does this mean even amateur beekeepers can't use top-bar hives? Seems a bit over-regulatory, if so.
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rules apply to all, ESPECIALLY amateurs !

i don't see it as over-regulatory, its common sense to check hives for disease.

the rules have been in place probably close to 100 years now (don't quote me has i don't know exactly when it came in, its was well before my farther was born!) so its nothing new. the requirement is for removable frame hives, primarily so the two mandatory disease check per year can be done. most beekeepers check more than that as it such a big advantage to stop the diseases early on.
 
Top-bars have removable frames; I don't see how having a top-bar dissuades disease checks (I'm not arguing, just trying to understand).
 
mccann51 said:
Top-bars have removable frames; I don't see how having a top-bar dissuades disease checks (I'm not arguing, just trying to understand).
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i'm not sure on the legal wording on the act so i don't know that side of things. but roughly speaking, legally they don't regard top bars as frames.

in practice from what i see in the field with foundation-less frames and starter foundation (ie not full foundation) in frames and top bars (eg broken frames, cut comb frames etc) is that bees don't always follow the bars when drawing comb. they often curve around inside the box and criss cross multiable frames.
this means you have to break the comb to get it out to inspect the cells.
also there is the risk of weak comb breaking off especially after you have broken the bridging.

the problem is that some beekeepers are reluctant to disease check as they don't want to damage brood comb.

i have enough trouble getting amateurs to do disease checks, mite treatments etc as it is, without them being worried about killing the hive off by breaking the brood comb.

funny enough i had two amateurs today that are three months late on inspection and mite treatments :eek:
 
My making mead also has led me recently to try my hand at (super hobby) beekeeping. I bought five hives a few months ago from a beekeeper I know. So far, it has been extremely interesting opening up the hives and seeing all the work they do. I have bought 4 (inexpensive) books on my Kindle on beekeeping (I also have the Langstroth classic book) and also read like 15 scientific and diffusion papers on varroa treatment (including a very interesting one from NZ comparing different treatments). Here, many beekeepers have very outdated practices (according to my books, that is....) but some people are using "natural" treatment for varroa using oxalic or formic acid. Thymol has started to be used, but a lot of people use stronger chemical stuff.

As the winter started two days ago, now there is little activity in the hives. I just hope they will winter well. they had a lot of honey and pollen three weeks ago, but I plan on feeding them sugar syrup further down the winter. I have to keep reading and asking questions, though...... :)

If this works, I will make mead with my own honey in the summer!! :cool:
 
good to hear.

i havn't seen a lot useing organic acids. i have know plenty of peole using thymol with large amounts of failures. our humidity and temp range makes it difficult for it to work correctly. but just remember varroa is not the worse bug bees have to deal with.

hopefully you get a good crop and be able to make your own mead with it to :)


just a bit about he top bar hives.....the NZ NBA was looking for some feedback from pro top bar hive users. seams none have put their case forward for top bar hives.
i hope its not yet another underground movement thats going to infect everyones hives.
 
Hope your hives do well, Tycoon! I can't imagine how gratifying it's going to be brewing mead with honey from your own hives; cheers!
 
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