Bottling questions

-Is it a problem if I get some sediment into the bottles when I rack?

You just have to be careful when pouring it out later, and it doesn't look pretty if you give it as a gift to someone. But no, not really an issue.


-bottle storage temperature?

Stable temperature, usually in the low sixties, high fifties. Think wine cellar.


-I just started to use this small demijohns gallon carboys a couple of months ago, so I was wondering if I do I use siphoning equipment with this small carboys to or just pour over without/(or minimally) splashing the wine?

Check out bottle fillers, they are your friend, or a bucket with a spiquet, but those CAN host nasties if you don't wash them well. Pouring is probably the worst of the plans (siphong, spiquet, bottle filler).

-Can I go directly from primary ferment into bottles?

No. There is still lots of CO2 trapped in suspension in your mead. It can easily take 6 months or more for your mead to properly degas, and bottling early results in bottle bombs.

Commercial wine bottles do tend mostly to be made to international standards these days, so yes, if you get one of two standard diameter corks you should be able to cork virtually all the bottles you come across. #8 and #9 corks tend to both work in standard 750 ml bottles, no matter what the manufacturer or bottle style. #9 corks, being larger diameter, will seal more effectively and last longer. But #9 corks are also extremely difficult to insert with a hand corker. Some of the #9 synthetic corks are simply too stiff to effectively compress with a hand corker.

Halfway in - could lead to leakage problems or oxidation issues down the road. Too far in - could also lead to sealing issues (especially in bottle styles with gradually sloping neck profiles), and that could also make the corks difficult to remove. Generally it is best to cork such that the top surface of the cork is flush with the bottle neck top edge. I'd say that 1mm too far in, and likewise 1mm too far out, are generally not a problem but deviations much more than that could cause issues.

Sediment - it depends. If the sediment is from yeast lees and the yeast variety causes funky flavors when it autolyses, that could be a problem. Further, any lees sucked up and deposited into your bottle with the mead may cause problems if there is residual sugar in the mead, and if you haven't sufficiently stabilized it. Also, sediment tends to mix back in with the mead when you uncork and pour, so your mead won't be as clear as it could have been. I like to rack at least once from primary fermenter to aging vessel - often I'll rack into two or more aging vessels (with some months in between) before I get around to bottling. I like my meads to be clear, and stable.

Storage Temp - Cool is generally best (wine cellar temps, 12-15C), but if you can't achieve those temperatures easily, temperature stability (even up to typical room temperatures) is far more important than actual temperature, in my opinion. I used to make meads in an apartment in East Texas (typical temperature most of the year was around 27C), and I found that I could reliably store my meads in the room without supplemental cooling, and while they did tend to age more quickly, I still could expect a reasonable shelf life.

Yes, siphon and rack while taking care to mix in as little air as possible. That extends shelf-life by minimizing the chances for oxidation.

While you could conceivably rack directly from a primary to bottles, for all the reasons I cited in my third answer, I would suggest racking into one or more aging vessels before bottling.

jens183 said:

-Is it like different diameter on commercial wine bottles or do they follow a standard?

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Most of 'em are the same, or close enough. Every now and then I find one with a really small opening, but even the screw-top bottles seem to be the same mouth diameter as regular corked bottles.

jens183 said:

-Is it a problem that I get the cork only halfway in or to far in?

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Before you do your bottle run, cork a bottle or two to get a feel for it and make sure your corker's set properly, if it's the double-lever style like mine, the nut at the top is how you adjust how deep the plunger goes. Usually getting them in too far isn't a problem as there's only so much compression the contents will take before the cork slides back out again, and if it's sticking out a few mm or less I will try to push it in with my thumb but if it won't go I won't bother to recork it, I will just drink that bottle first.

jens183 said:

-Is it a problem if I get some sediment into the bottles when I rack?

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I usually get a little bit in the last bottle, but for the most part it's aesthetic. If I do kick up some sediment in one or two bottles they get drunk first in case it affects the quality but I haven't found it to.

jens183 said:

-bottle storage temperature?

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Try to keep them cool and in the dark, minimize significant temperature changes if possible. A wine cellar is awesome, mine seem to do OK in my basement covered with a sheet to keep the light out.

jens183 said:

-I just started to use this small demijohns gallon carboys a couple of months ago, so I was wondering if I do I use siphoning equipment with this small carboys to or just pour over without/(or minimally) splashing the wine?

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If you try pouring from a gallon jug you'll find pretty quickly that it's not a great pouring spout and dribbles all over, especially when full, pouring from large diameter to small never ends well (for me, anyway), and every time you change the tilt of the jug (ie, going from bottle to bottle) you will kick up sediment. I just find it so much easier to siphon it... especially when you get a bottle filler tip on your racking hose. I also like those because I can stick the racking cane into the carboy gently, then put the filler tip on the hose, then fill the hose with water, and use that to start the siphon into a sanitized mason jar, you can tell when it stops being water and starts being mead, then stick it in a bottle and away you go.

jens183 said:

-Can I go directly from primary ferment into bottles?

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I'm a total klutz with the racking cane and always stir up the crap on the bottom, so I almost always rack it to a fresh carboy a week before I bottle (gives anything I kicked up time to settle out again) and I generally regret not doing it if I decide I'm too lazy. But if you've got a steady hand with the racking cane it can be done. The biggest problem with racking from primary is you need to make absolutely sure it's done fermenting, the only one I've ever bottled straight from primary was JAO and now I rack those too, it just makes it easier for me.

Once you've gone through it a couple of times, you'll figure out what works for you.

jens183 said:

Thanks. Very informativ answars.


The corks #8 and #9 what is that in mm? The one I can get seem to only say "38mm" and "X-long 38mm".

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Not sure to be honest

Does any of the yeasts k1v-1116 Ec-1118 causes funky flavors when it autolyses?

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All yeast contribute some flavor when they break down. This can be good or bad depending on what flavors you want or already have in your mead. Look for threads on Sur Lie aging for more info on this.

The reason I asked about going directly into bottles from primary is because When I rack into secondary I get a lot of room on airspace on the top of the secondary demijohn(especially if its fruit/spices/etc in the primary).

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This is something everyone contends with. The methods for dealing with it are numerous. You can come up with your own solution as long as it reduces the amount of air to contact the mead during aging, and the products used are non-reactive (Things without chemicals that can affect the taste)

Commons solutions are:

As you noted marbles or smooth aquarium stones (this can be fairly expensive and are very heavy) be sure to sanitize them first. Smooth is important as rough surfaces provide a place for bacteria to hide.

Place a layer of inert gas such as CO2 or Argon into the container. I purchased a computer duster that uses disposable CO2 canisters meant for air rifles (pellet guns) or small paint ball guns.

Purchase new mylar balloons (the type that has a shiny metallic looking surface) Inflate them inside the carboy and hold in place with the stopper.

Ferment in a bucket in primary, aiming for it to fit into a specific size later

Have multiple sizes of carboys, so that as you just start having too much space in the last, it will just fit into the next size down.

Soyala_Amaya said:

-Is it a problem if I get some sediment into the bottles when I rack?

You just have to be careful when pouring it out later, and it doesn't look pretty if you give it as a gift to someone. But no, not really an issue.


-bottle storage temperature?

Stable temperature, usually in the low sixties, high fifties. Think wine cellar.


-I just started to use this small demijohns gallon carboys a couple of months ago, so I was wondering if I do I use siphoning equipment with this small carboys to or just pour over without/(or minimally) splashing the wine?

Check out bottle fillers, they are your friend, or a bucket with a spiquet, but those CAN host nasties if you don't wash them well. Pouring is probably the worst of the plans (siphong, spiquet, bottle filler).

-Can I go directly from primary ferment into bottles?

No. There is still lots of CO2 trapped in suspension in your mead. It can easily take 6 months or more for your mead to properly degas, and bottling early results in bottle bombs.

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Soyala Amaya,
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is a "spiquet" ?
I have Mr. Websters little book out here and I am hard pressed to find reference...

Jim

That is migraine talk for spigot apparently...spelling skills, sometimes I have them, sometimes I don't.

Wingnut said:

Soyala Amaya,
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is a "spiquet" ?
I have Mr. Websters little book out here and I am hard pressed to find reference...

Jim

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I think she means 'spigot'.

jens183 said:

Those Bottle Filler(bottle filler tip) is that like an extension of the basic ones where you suck on the end going into the bottles?

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It's just a rigid tube with a valve on the bottom that opens when you press it against the bottom of the bottle you're filling, I like it because I can put it on the hose, fill the hose with water at the sink or with my bottle rinser and then attach that to my racking cane and don't need to suck on anything that's going into a bottle. There's also a bottle filler contraption (I hate mine, it won't hold a prime and it wastes a fair amount of wine for no reason I can see but other people love theirs, maybe mine's just crappy) with a tube that doesn't go into the wine, which you suck on to get it started, and it stops filling the bottle when it gets to the top...


[/QUOTE]The reason I asked about going directly into bottles from primary is because When I rack into secondary I get a lot of room on airspace on the top of the secondary demijohn(especially if its fruit/spices/etc in the primary). And when I fill in more honey must it restarting fermentation and build up more sediment (And I'm right back where I started)...
Should I make an extra high gravity in primary and just pour water til top after transfering into second? I saw somebody talking about aquarium rocks ... Whats like the "normal" procedure when doing several rackings?[/QUOTE]

Or you could make a separate gallon of traditional mead (usually pretty resistant to oxidation) and use that to top up your other batches. When I've done this, I move it into wine bottles with plastic wrap on top once there's too much headspace to leave it in the carboy.

jens183 said:

How far( mm ) should the bottom of the cork be from the top of the liquid for optimal storage etc?

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I use the bottle filler tip's displacement as a guide. Too little room and the cork doesn't want to go in easily because you have to compress that airspace to get it in, too much room and you risk a small amount of oxidation. I'm not sure what the official regulations are but the wine should at least be higher than the "shoulders" of the bottle, I think usually end up about an inch up from there, leaving at least an inch of space before the bottom of the cork, otherwise my corks slide back out.

jens183 said:

Reusing screw top bottles and corks is that possible or does the brooken sealing change something?

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I do it. The opening's the same size as other bottles. When I'm doing JAO's or something unstabilized, I sanitize and reuse the screw tops too, that way if fermentation kicks up again I don't have to pull a cork to find out.

Loadnabox said:

All yeast contribute some flavor when they break down. This can be good or bad depending on what flavors you want or already have in your mead. Look for threads on Sur Lie aging for more info on this.

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EC-1118 and any other yeast that's listed as a champagne yeast should be good for sur lie aging (which is hard to do a forum search for because the search engine doesn't like three-letter words). Most often I see the description of what it adds to a wine is "nutty" flavours. K1V I believe is also pretty neutral, but 71B is to be avoided for lees aging, you don't want to leave anything on it longer than about 6 weeks before racking out of primary. I've left stuff on the fine lees with EC and K1V for years with nothing funky going on.

EC-1118 and any other yeast that's listed as a champagne yeast should be good for sur lie aging (which is hard to do a forum search for because the search engine doesn't like three-letter words). Most often I see the description of what it adds to a wine is "nutty" flavours. K1V I believe is also pretty neutral, but 71B is to be avoided for lees aging, you don't want to leave anything on it longer than about 6 weeks before racking out of primary. I've left stuff on the fine lees with EC and K1V for years with nothing funky going on.[/QUOTE]

More or less what I was getting at. There are times when a nutty flavor might not be desired though. For instance, I can't imagine that a nutty flavor would go well with a cranberry flavored mead.

jens183 said:

Are you meaning toy store mables . Dont they contain reactive thing like led etc?
Can I use like heavily rinsed and boiled smooth river rocks?

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Specifically NOT toy store marbles for exactly that reason, you want pet store aquarium marbles which are formulated to be safe for fish so they're safe for us. They're more expensive.

Smooth river rocks might be OK but without knowing what they're made of, you won't know what might leach out in the acidic environment of your must. If you know for sure that you can get some granite or marble pebbles it'd work, but limestone or anything like that would raise your pH... and you never know what trace metals might be present in a given rock...

And for reference:

#8 corks are 7/8", or 22.23mm diameter.
#9 corks are 15/16", or 23.81mm diameter.

jens183 said:

Why is a traditional mead pretty resistant to oxidation?
Whats too much headspace in the carboy( for normal mead and for traditional mead ) ?

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Do a 'net search for honey and antioxidants, and you should turn up researching showing that honey has a fair amount of them, generally, the darker the honey, the higher the antioxidant content.

It's still best to observed general precautions against oxidation in mead -- much of what is being reported is anecdotal evidence, or extrapolation from the research on antioxidant content in honey.

--

That is migraine talk for spigot apparently...spelling skills, sometimes I have them, sometimes I don't.
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Angry Viking Hedgehog say "Give me mead or I poke ya!"



Well, OK. Thanks. I was thinking it was French....I never doubted your spelling skills, especially knowing what mine are like!

I would think that toy store marbles would be required to contain absolutely no lead...

huesmann said:

I would think that toy store marbles would be required to contain absolutely no lead...

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no lead, but there are other chemicals which are in the paint or lacquer which can leach into a liquid solution.