View Full Version : Cider Fermented! Still make Cyser??

10-30-2007, 08:53 PM
I'd ordered a HUGE quantity of cider from the co-op, enough to have my 5 gallons for the ABC group brew and a semi sweet K1V Cyser.
Well I left town for the weekend and my roommate called me: They'd exploded. All of 'em. I took a look last night, they're mostly intact though they've leaked, some as much as 2/3 down.

Definitely a wild fermentation I figure, now my question is: They still have some sugar in them, they cant be more than 2-3 ABV right now, if I sulfite them over night and make a monstrous starter do you think I could still use them? After a little thought the wild fermentation aspect may even add something nice to the finished product. Certainly one of a kind.

Heres my starter plan:

Rehydrate yeast in go-ferm as per.
Let stand for 15. Pitch into 1/2 gallon water with 1/2 lb honey dissolved.
After 24 hrs I'll add a little more honey water + some of that slightly alcoholic cider bringing the starter up to 1 gallon.
Pitch they day after that. The starter will likely be more alcoholic than the must at that point (I don't have the means to sit and calculate this at this moment but...)

Do you think this is viable or am I wasting my efforts on this one?
I'm not used to making a starter like this, does it look like enough?

Thanks y'all


10-30-2007, 11:34 PM
If you want to ensure that all the sugar is completely fermented out, then I'd just rehydrate and pitch the K1V-1116. It is a "killer factor" yeast, which means that it secretes an enzyme that deactivates many strains of wild yeast. So it will essentially take over from whatever is fermenting naturally in there and take the cyser to complete dryness. The sulfite will most likely not be necessary -- I never sulfite any of my ingredients before pitching any more, and I find that the commercial yeasts that I add at pitching usually completely swamps the action of any wild strain. If you want to be absolutely certain that the 1116 swamps the wild yeast you could use a starter, but I think you'd be fine with properly rehydrated (using Go-Ferm) yeast using no starter, since the ABV in your cider is not very high yet.

If I were pitching into something that was over 6% or so ABV, then I would consider making a starter and using repeated addtitions of the existing must to step-acclimate it, so as not to ethanol shock the yeast.

10-31-2007, 01:31 AM
The killer factor in yeasts are generally associated with mitochondrial protiens, amino acids (L-dsRNA and M-dsRNA) and extra chromosomal DNA (think plasmids but in an encapsulated morphology that is similar to viruses) and are prevalent in Saccharmomyces cerevisiae bayanus and uvarum. There are some L phenotypes that have incidental polymerase activity in common with K strains, but the polymerase is involved in the replication of the L and M genome rather than any effect as an active killer enzyme.

The killer factor is generally only effective on yeasts that are killer sensitive, and yeasts are generally killer sensitive, killer nuetral or killer active. The effectiveness of killer strains are significantly degraded in nitrogen starved musts. Yet another reason for nutrient dosing during fermentation.



11-01-2007, 03:11 AM

What about Eau De Vie? This was going to be my ABC. It may not have a killer factor (I couldn't find out) but it should be strong enough to kick out whatever else is in there...

I plan on making a starter anyway just to get off to a roaring start.
I have a packet of K1V as well, though I'm not sure what I'll do with it at this moment... I'll have to see how much cider I have.

Thanks y'all