hey guys im going to make a melomel the first part of march. i want to make 5 gal batch with kiwi as the fruit. i also want to make it sack strength. i have a sack recipe that calls for 18 lbs of honey but i know thats too much as the fruit will offset it some if i am right. i saw a recipe for 3 gal of kiwi melomel but it called for added suger and apple juice i dont want that i want to keep it simple just fruit and honey and water yeast and nutriants. so what i need to know is how much honey and how many lbs of fruit.
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first mead questions
- Thread starter jthoward013
- Start date
Hi there jthoward013,
Welcome to GOTMEAD?
Honey by the pound is not very exact. You should go by the specific gravity of the must.
A sack strength mead is 14-18% ABV. Find a yeast rated within this range and add (using the mead calculator) 19.74 pounds honey at an assumed sugar content of 79.6. This will give you a S.G. of 1.142.
Kiwis, I don't know about. I'm sure more is better.
Welcome to GOTMEAD?
Honey by the pound is not very exact. You should go by the specific gravity of the must.
A sack strength mead is 14-18% ABV. Find a yeast rated within this range and add (using the mead calculator) 19.74 pounds honey at an assumed sugar content of 79.6. This will give you a S.G. of 1.142.
Kiwis, I don't know about. I'm sure more is better.
Kiwi fruit ? Hum ?
Well, it would depend on what you're actually after, because the fresh taste of the fruit is about higher acid and lower sugars.
To retain more of the flavour, some fruit in primary, some in secondary. Yet as kiwi loses its fresh taste if heated, you may need to experiment to see what happens if you freeze them. You might have to just crush them up by hand as they go gritty if whizzed in a food processor and you don't want to break or damage the seeds as they might release bitterness.
Some of the kiwi wine recipes I've seen, you just cut the stalk part away, but then ferment on the pulp, skin and all (it adds some colour and tannins).
I'm thinking that I'd just start with a traditional, then add pulped fruit to secondary. Once a reasonable level of alcohol is reached, some more fruit would be added to the finished ferment (after stabilising etc).
Dunno if any of that is helpful or not....
Well, it would depend on what you're actually after, because the fresh taste of the fruit is about higher acid and lower sugars.
To retain more of the flavour, some fruit in primary, some in secondary. Yet as kiwi loses its fresh taste if heated, you may need to experiment to see what happens if you freeze them. You might have to just crush them up by hand as they go gritty if whizzed in a food processor and you don't want to break or damage the seeds as they might release bitterness.
Some of the kiwi wine recipes I've seen, you just cut the stalk part away, but then ferment on the pulp, skin and all (it adds some colour and tannins).
I'm thinking that I'd just start with a traditional, then add pulped fruit to secondary. Once a reasonable level of alcohol is reached, some more fruit would be added to the finished ferment (after stabilising etc).
Dunno if any of that is helpful or not....
more questions for first mead
ive got some good info alraedy and used the mead calc. target sg is 1.142 the target % is 18 the size is 5 gal the honey called for is 18 lbs and the kiwi called for is 10 lbs. heres the question. do i add the kiwi to the primary or the secondary or half to prim and half to sec to have some good flavor left in it. i know the kiwi is not strong in flavor to start and i dont want it to all go away to the honey flavor.
ive got some good info alraedy and used the mead calc. target sg is 1.142 the target % is 18 the size is 5 gal the honey called for is 18 lbs and the kiwi called for is 10 lbs. heres the question. do i add the kiwi to the primary or the secondary or half to prim and half to sec to have some good flavor left in it. i know the kiwi is not strong in flavor to start and i dont want it to all go away to the honey flavor.
Hum ? I'd go with half and half then. Don't peel, blitz or pulp the fruit, just crush it gently, so you get it all in there, skin and all. Without crushing the seed, which could allow it to become bitter........
Oh, and I'd go for K1V-1116 yeast. That'll do 18% fine, but it won't blow all the aromatics and some of the more subtle flavours straight out the airlock.....
Oh, and I'd go for K1V-1116 yeast. That'll do 18% fine, but it won't blow all the aromatics and some of the more subtle flavours straight out the airlock.....
need more help
i have been kicking this around with my brew club and the is the conversation so far so i need some help in this as i want a good mead.
"hey guys i am planning on making a mead next month for next years domras cup. im making 5 gal sack strength and the recipe calls for 18 lbs of honey but i want to make a fruit mead out of kiwi fruit. so how much fruit would i need and how much honey as the fruit will take place of some of it. thanks for your help.
primary: chocolate milk stout, cider, whelch's wine
bottle: 6 honey brown ale
jthoward013
Visitor
What kind of honey? Orange Blossom, Clover, wildflower? OB may be a good choice with the delicate flavor of the kiwi.
mtripka
Officer
yeah i think i will go with OB i found a mead forum last night and got some good feed back that have this thing called a mead calculator you put in the values you know like alcohol % when finished the finished gravity target and other fermentables like fruit and it tells you the amounts you need and it told me 18 lbs of honey and 9 lbs of fruit. my target was 18% and 1.000 gravity. but my next question is to add fruit to the primary or the secondary or ad part to primary and part to the secondary to keep the kiwi flavor. and also is my target % to high or would it work good for an 11 month sit till the next domras cup. im not bottling till time for the cup.
primary: chocolate milk stout, cider, whelch's wine
bottle: 6 honey brown ale
jthoward013
Visitor
Sounds like a huge mead! Before you start this you might do well to talk with another mead maker as your numbers seem a bit optimistic. Finishing at 1.000 and 18% will likely be very harsh and perhaps impossible to hit - not to mention incorrect numbers for the sack designation. Also with that amount of honey and fruit you will need a little help shepherding the yeast with nutrients and oxygenation.
vpbecker
Past Prez"
i have been kicking this around with my brew club and the is the conversation so far so i need some help in this as i want a good mead.
"hey guys i am planning on making a mead next month for next years domras cup. im making 5 gal sack strength and the recipe calls for 18 lbs of honey but i want to make a fruit mead out of kiwi fruit. so how much fruit would i need and how much honey as the fruit will take place of some of it. thanks for your help.
primary: chocolate milk stout, cider, whelch's wine
bottle: 6 honey brown ale
jthoward013
Visitor
What kind of honey? Orange Blossom, Clover, wildflower? OB may be a good choice with the delicate flavor of the kiwi.
mtripka
Officer
yeah i think i will go with OB i found a mead forum last night and got some good feed back that have this thing called a mead calculator you put in the values you know like alcohol % when finished the finished gravity target and other fermentables like fruit and it tells you the amounts you need and it told me 18 lbs of honey and 9 lbs of fruit. my target was 18% and 1.000 gravity. but my next question is to add fruit to the primary or the secondary or ad part to primary and part to the secondary to keep the kiwi flavor. and also is my target % to high or would it work good for an 11 month sit till the next domras cup. im not bottling till time for the cup.
primary: chocolate milk stout, cider, whelch's wine
bottle: 6 honey brown ale
jthoward013
Visitor
Sounds like a huge mead! Before you start this you might do well to talk with another mead maker as your numbers seem a bit optimistic. Finishing at 1.000 and 18% will likely be very harsh and perhaps impossible to hit - not to mention incorrect numbers for the sack designation. Also with that amount of honey and fruit you will need a little help shepherding the yeast with nutrients and oxygenation.
vpbecker
Past Prez"
The last thing you cross posted there is very correct. At 18% AND dry you won't have anything good until it's aged at LEAST 2 years and possibly as much as 5 years.
18% is a very aggressive goal. I've only ever hit 17.5% and mazers much more experienced than myself have trouble even getting that much. You will need to be spot on with your nutrient additions to avoid over-doing it while keeping the yeast totally happy till the bitter end. You will also need to research a step feeding method such as bottom diffusion or standard step-feeding to avoid osmotic shock in an extremely high OG.
Kiwi is a delicate taste and will be completely innundated by the alcohol at 18% whether primary or secondary for many years.
If you want something drinkable sooner aim for 12-14% ABV, make the FG sweeter (1.020-1.030). Do some searches of the forums here and you'll find other people's experience with kiwi. You may need some in both primary and secondary to get much taste from them. An aggressive yeast like EC-1118 tends to blow off the subtle flavors and aromatics in fermentation. A yeast like 71B would lend itself much better to preserving the kiwi flavor.
18% is a very aggressive goal. I've only ever hit 17.5% and mazers much more experienced than myself have trouble even getting that much. You will need to be spot on with your nutrient additions to avoid over-doing it while keeping the yeast totally happy till the bitter end. You will also need to research a step feeding method such as bottom diffusion or standard step-feeding to avoid osmotic shock in an extremely high OG.
Kiwi is a delicate taste and will be completely innundated by the alcohol at 18% whether primary or secondary for many years.
If you want something drinkable sooner aim for 12-14% ABV, make the FG sweeter (1.020-1.030). Do some searches of the forums here and you'll find other people's experience with kiwi. You may need some in both primary and secondary to get much taste from them. An aggressive yeast like EC-1118 tends to blow off the subtle flavors and aromatics in fermentation. A yeast like 71B would lend itself much better to preserving the kiwi flavor.
I've made kiwi wine a couple of times but never tried it as a melomel. I usually use 3 lb per gallon in primary, and though it smells fantastically kiwi-ish while fermenting, not a lot of the taste comes through in the wine, next time I find kiwifruit on sale cheap enough to make wine with, I'm going to try adding another pound or two in secondary to see if I can boost the kiwi flavour. It's a very pleasant wine, just not terriffically recognizeable as kiwi.
Med calc
I'm trying to figure out how to use the mead calc and saw your post, so plugged the numbers in to see what I got. I put in 18 pounds of honey and 10 pounds of kiwi, and got a sg of 1.234 and 27% alcohol.
Stacey
I'm trying to figure out how to use the mead calc and saw your post, so plugged the numbers in to see what I got. I put in 18 pounds of honey and 10 pounds of kiwi, and got a sg of 1.234 and 27% alcohol.
Stacey
Hi Stacey,
I just did the same thing and I think I figured out how you got those high numbers. I believe you had a "3" as the target volume instead of a "5".
Try a 5 gallon US with 18# honey and 10# kiwi.....then it should look better for you!
I myself am learning how to use the mead calc better so I've been combing over all of the forum posts trying to replicate them as well.
Good luck!
David
I just did the same thing and I think I figured out how you got those high numbers. I believe you had a "3" as the target volume instead of a "5".
Try a 5 gallon US with 18# honey and 10# kiwi.....then it should look better for you!
I myself am learning how to use the mead calc better so I've been combing over all of the forum posts trying to replicate them as well.
Good luck!
David
Just a note, I merged three separate post threads about the same mead ideas into this one thread.
i was reading in another part of gotmead about massive yeast pitches like 100g per 5 gal. i was wanting to know how that much yeast would affect the taste and how good of a job it does. and also i have read using orange juice to make a starter. would i need to make a starter with that much yeast and if so how much should i use and will it affect the taste or should i just make my must and use some of that for a starter.???
At that dose, roughly 10x more than the routine dose for even relatively high initial gravity musts, you would probably notice some effect from the extra yeast.
Here's what generally happens when you pitch a massive initial dose of yeast. There are so many more cells all trying to scavenge sugars, nutrients and O2 from the must as they begin their lifecycle of fermentation and multiplication, that the colony is effectively starved early on in the primary cycle. Hence, more yeast will succumb to the stress and fall out of suspension earlier on in primary. All that stress can cause the yeast colony to produce more fusels and other stress related byproducts than a normally maturing colony would do. So it isn't likely, in most cases, to do good things to your mead.
Here's what generally happens when you pitch a massive initial dose of yeast. There are so many more cells all trying to scavenge sugars, nutrients and O2 from the must as they begin their lifecycle of fermentation and multiplication, that the colony is effectively starved early on in the primary cycle. Hence, more yeast will succumb to the stress and fall out of suspension earlier on in primary. All that stress can cause the yeast colony to produce more fusels and other stress related byproducts than a normally maturing colony would do. So it isn't likely, in most cases, to do good things to your mead.
thanks for the info. as i am making an high starting gravity 18 lbs honey and 15 lbs of kiwi(7 lbs in primary and 8 lbs in secondary for good flavor) would i do good to pitch extra like 3-4x the norm.
Yeah, for high gravity musts like that, I usually pitch 2.5 to 3x what is normally recommended. I also will acclimate the yeast to that higher concentration of sugar before pitching into the main batch.
