Red Pyment - what's it supposed to taste like?...

Maeloch · Jan 31, 2014

Suspect this is a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question...

For the point of argument, we're talking about a Joe's Quick Pyment with Purple Concord, although I've got another 2-3 variations which are similar...

Basically, I started some red pyments, as I like red wine and I like mead. That simple a reasoning really. The Quick Pyment is approx 3-4months old atm. Racking and tasting the other day, it seemed to me to lack alot of the body of a red - in fact, if I tasted blind I would have probably pegged it as a rose, perhaps a little more tannic.

Is this the deal with red pyments? More akin to rose than fortified reds?

fatbloke · Jan 31, 2014

Maeloch said:
Suspect this is a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question...

For the point of argument, we're talking about a Joe's Quick Pyment with Purple Concord, although I've got another 2-3 variations which are similar...

Basically, I started some red pyments, as I like red wine and I like mead. That simple a reasoning really. The Quick Pyment is approx 3-4months old atm. Racking and tasting the other day, it seemed to me to lack alot of the body of a red - in fact, if I tasted blind I would have probably pegged it as a rose, perhaps a little more tannic.

Is this the deal with red pyments? More akin to rose than fortified reds?

Ah......well it depends on the makings......

I've got about 20 gallons of pyment upstairs aging/clearing/oaking, but its more like a red wine but with hints of honey.

Why ?

Because it was fresh grape (merlot, syrrah and tempranillo) but with honey added and step fed until the yeast pooped out. I was trying to keep the skins in until they sank but I bottled out as the ferment was finished and the skins were still floating.......

haven't tasted it recently though so dunno how its getting on.......

Maeloch · Feb 3, 2014

fatbloke said:
Ah......well it depends on the makings......

I've got about 20 gallons of pyment upstairs aging/clearing/oaking, but its more like a red wine but with hints of honey.

Why ?

Because it was fresh grape (merlot, syrrah and tempranillo) but with honey added and step fed until the yeast pooped out. I was trying to keep the skins in until they sank but I bottled out as the ferment was finished and the skins were still floating.......

haven't tasted it recently though so dunno how its getting on.......

The Joe's Quick recipe uses just approx 2l juice per gallon...that's Welsh's Purple Concord from the supermarket (damn that it looses that colour!). I've either used that, supermarket Merlot juice, and one that I've not tasted with some kit Merlot concentrate (which seems half glucose syrup and blackcurrant juice). The last one I've not tasted yet, but the kit was good for 5gal, and it's a 5gal batch, so the red juice should be more prominant.

It does sound like your raw materials are much better tho! Where did you get your grapes? I did a quick google where I could get them, or better concentrate, but didn't come up with anything.

Maybe I'm misguided, but one of the reasons I got started on the mead, is at least you can get honey here as good an anywhere else, rather than having to make substandard wine from concentrate....

fatbloke · Feb 3, 2014

Maeloch said:
The Joe's Quick recipe uses just approx 2l juice per gallon...that's Welsh's Purple Concord from the supermarket (damn that it looses that colour!). I've either used that, supermarket Merlot juice, and one that I've not tasted with some kit Merlot concentrate (which seems half glucose syrup and blackcurrant juice). The last one I've not tasted yet, but the kit was good for 5gal, and it's a 5gal batch, so the red juice should be more prominant.

It does sound like your raw materials are much better tho! Where did you get your grapes? I did a quick google where I could get them, or better concentrate, but didn't come up with anything.

Maybe I'm misguided, but one of the reasons I got started on the mead, is at least you can get honey here as good an anywhere else, rather than having to make substandard wine from concentrate....

It's all rather counter intuitive with grapes. Its easy to believe that you press white grapes you get white juice and black juice from black grapes, but of course, that's not correct.

to get as much colour as they do with the concord or other juices is pretty good, because as a general rule the juice is the same "white" colour irrespective of variety.

its why you see the character listed as being good for reds, on some yeast. The old standby for home brewing RC--212 (the only red specific yeast in home brew packs).

Some yeast is good for both.

I can't say for certain but would get that some yeasts have a more robust bleaching effect during the ferment than others.

All the colour comes from the skins so it'd be quite hard to pulp the grapes and keep skin contact to extract the colour and tannins without some kind of chems.

like I mentioned, I bottled out waiting for the skins to sink as the ferment had stopped and I was concerned about opening the bucket to punch the cap down after the ferment had ceased, so I just racked and pressed.........

as for where the grapes came from ? As far as I know, the wholesale market at New Covent Garden. They're organised by Bob and/Brian over at winesathome.co.uk (just look up grapefest there and you'll see the score - with a username like yours, I suspect Scotland ? Well we sometimes get "the Aberdeen contingent" coming down with a few others).

Maeloch · Feb 4, 2014

fatbloke said:
It's all rather counter intuitive with grapes. Its easy to believe that you press white grapes you get white juice and black juice from black grapes, but of course, that's not correct.

to get as much colour as they do with the concord or other juices is pretty good, because as a general rule the juice is the same "white" colour irrespective of variety.

its why you see the character listed as being good for reds, on some yeast. The old standby for home brewing RC--212 (the only red specific yeast in home brew packs).

Some yeast is good for both.

I can't say for certain but would get that some yeasts have a more robust bleaching effect during the ferment than others.

All the colour comes from the skins so it'd be quite hard to pulp the grapes and keep skin contact to extract the colour and tannins without some kind of chems.

like I mentioned, I bottled out waiting for the skins to sink as the ferment had stopped and I was concerned about opening the bucket to punch the cap down after the ferment had ceased, so I just racked and pressed.........

as for where the grapes came from ? As far as I know, the wholesale market at New Covent Garden. They're organised by Bob and/Brian over at winesathome.co.uk (just look up grapefest there and you'll see the score - with a username like yours, I suspect Scotland ? Well we sometimes get "the Aberdeen contingent" coming down with a few others).

I get what your saying about the colour of the juice. I was having a play mashing up some red grapes over the weekend - as you do - the flesh is white.

I'm a northerner, but working in Salisbury atm. The name is just something I used on a gaming foruming and couldn't think of anything better for here. I pass thru London pretty regularly so I'll have a nose at the New Covent Garden market. The grapefest is basically a jolly where everyone meets up and presses whatever?!

On most of the reds I used EC1118. I know it's not the best yeast to throw at everything, just as you probably know, if you have a suden urge to make something it tends to be the main thing to get at short notice. Now I mention it just gonna put in an order for a few dry packets of KV1116 etc, to have sitting around rather than end up with that all the time.

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Red Pyment - what's it supposed to taste like?...

Maeloch

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fatbloke

good egg/snappy dresser.....

Maeloch

NewBee

fatbloke

good egg/snappy dresser.....

Maeloch

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