Recipe advice for larger batch?

Zeebie · Aug 13, 2015

Hey guys.

All the recipes I have found are for 5gallons/19lt~21lt

I am planning on making a slightly larger batch; 15gallons / 60lts, all the recipes i have found are all for 5 gallon quantity's. What i wanted to confirm is that with Mead its basically the same as baking, if your making a larger batch just to make sure the ingredients are in the same ratio, IE ill triple the quantity's.

The recipe calls for

For 5 gallons (19 L)
15 lb (6.8 kg) | Local honey
4-5 gal (15-19 L) | Water
0.18 oz (5 g) | Lalvin Fermaid-K*
Lalvin 71B-1122 yeast

So tripling it would look like.

45 lb (20.4 kg) | Local honey
12-15 gal (45-57 L) | Water
0.54 oz (15 g) | Lalvin Fermaid-K*
3 packets | Lalvin 71B-1122 yeast

Just wanted to make sure that, that would be correct; my local honey guy sells honey in 33 lb / 15kg pails so i picked up two of those for a total of $176.78 USD/ $240 AUD (which is a pretty good price, seeing as every place Ive looked at was a lot more, Its also Red Gum honey which is Delicious) only problem is i am going to be left over with about 22lb/10kg of honey, Id rather only be left with half that amount, would there be any harm in throwing a bit extra into the mix?

I also couldn't get my hands on Lalvin 71B-1122 but got Lalvin ICV D-47 instead

What would you guys recommend or what tweaks should be made?

One last question; I have a few food grade barrels (PET) lying around, I've heard that using plastic containers for secondary fermenting have high oxygen permeability, anyone had any experience with this; just wanted to confirm before i go out and spend a shitload of money on enough glass for the task.

Cheers

Zeebie.

valverij · Aug 13, 2015

I think your biggest problem doing 15 gallons with D47 is going to be temperature control. Over 68F, D47 starts throwing off some weird plastic flavors.

McJeff · Aug 13, 2015

Make three 5 gallon batches and blend?

Squatchy · Aug 13, 2015

That will be a bone dry mead. Is that what your looking for?

Squatchy · Aug 13, 2015

I would also add way more yeast. Like 10 packets minimum. Have you had success making this in a 5 gallon batch? Do you have your protocol dialed in? That will be an expensive fail if it doesn't turn out. That's not a very good nutrition piece. Do you know how to re-hydrate your dry yeast with Go-ferm? Do you have temp control,Ph, aeration/degassing down as well? You might want to get more specific on your techniques and post that. Then we can see better how to help you

Zeebie · Aug 13, 2015

You are right the recipe is a little on the dry side. I've been mentally debating whether to just throw the whole 66lb/30kg at it to sweeten it up.

Can you explain why you would add more yeast aka 10 packets minimum? This is the information i really want to know about when it comes to doing a large batch.

re-hydration of yeast wont be a problem that is fairly straight forward

.

Degassing (stirring) will be twice a day, morning/night until primary fermentation is nearly completed; i am not planning on bottling it straight away, i am going to leave it be for quite a while.

Its the middle of winter so the temp will be fairly low, when summer comes around i got a cool room i can keep it in to keep the temp low so that is not a problem.

Cheers.

JayH · Aug 14, 2015

You asked for numbers, and why so many packets. Well here goes.

A package of 71B is 5 grams and there approximately 20 Billion Cells per gram, so 100 billion per package.

If you rehydrate correctly you will get most of them, let’s say 90%. If you just throw it in, you will get around 50%

Now for a good pitch, let’s assume a million cells per Milliliter of wort per degree plato. (This varies with yeast type, alcohol level etc. but a million is an easy number to work with)

So 15 gallons of water = approx 56775 milliliters

15 lbs of honey per 5 gallons = 26% plato.

So:

56775 * 26 * 1,000,000 = 1,476,150,000,000

Or approximately 1500 billion cells

Assuming you get good re-hydration so your full 100 billion per package, that is still 15 packages of yeast.

Cheers
Jay

Squatchy · Aug 14, 2015

The advantage to what Jay has shown is this.

If you were to only pitch 3 packets your lag time would be way to long. A long lag time could allow for spoilage organisms. You would also give the yeast a good head start if there were more at the beginning of the war.

I would strongly suggest to rehydrate with Go-Ferm. Have you had success with your other attempts at a traditional? You haven't given your intentions on your nutrient additions. You really need to do that right as well

Zeebie · Aug 14, 2015

Thank you Jay.

That is precisely the information i wanted to know.

15*5 = 75 gram.

What i might do is get a 100gram packet of yeast, I don't know if i can get the D47 in 100g where i know i can get EC1118 in 100g for $20 aud so ill probably head down that path.

I had written down some where the ratios for staggering the nutrients but ill have to find it again and double check it.

Zeebie · Aug 14, 2015

Squatchy said:
The advantage to what Jay has shown is this.
I would strongly suggest to rehydrate with Go-Ferm. Have you had success with your other attempts at a traditional? You haven't given your intentions on your nutrient additions. You really need to do that right as well

I've only done really small batches before, nothing of this scale which is why i wanted the advice

I've got 100g packet of Go-Ferm and Fermaid. I am planing on staggering them so the batch gets the nutrient when it needs it, not all at once.

JayH · Aug 14, 2015

Just be aware that the alcohol tolerance of D47 is 14% theoretically (I have had it go much higher though) and the alcohol tolerance of EC1118 is 18%.

The amount of honey you initially indicated you would use would put you right at 14% potential ABV

If you left it there, both would go dry. However you asked about adding some more honey. With D47 this would leave you with a semi sweet to sweet mead depending upon how much extra, but EC1118 would take it dry unless you added a lot more.

When I did side by side tests of different yeast, D47 always was my favorite compared to EC1118.

As McJeff recommended you could always make 3 5 gallon batches and use D47 in one, 71B (if you can get it) in another and EC1118 in the third and decide for yourself which you like best. Also if you do realize that your favorite may very well change over time as they will all age differently. It would be a fun experiment.

Cheers
Jay

Squatchy · Aug 14, 2015

I would echo what Jay said. Also, just so you know, go gem isn't really a nutrient to use as food for your yeast during fermentation. It's only to rehydrate. Fermaid-k and DAP is what lots of people use. A newer food that some are using is called Fermaid-O. And you can add dead bread yeast after you drop it in boiling water into you mead if it starts smelling like sulphur

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Zeebie · Aug 14, 2015

JayH said:
If you left it there, both would go dry. However you asked about adding some more honey. With D47 this would leave you with a semi sweet to sweet mead depending upon how much extra, but EC1118 would take it dry unless you added a lot more.

From your experience how much honey would be required for D47 and EC1118 to make it semi-sweet/sweet mead. As i said I've got 30Kg / 66lbs to play with atm.

Squatchy said:
I would echo what Jay said. Also, just so you know, go gem isn't really a nutrient to use as food for your yeast during fermentation. It's only to rehydrate. Fermaid-k and DAP is what lots of people use. A newer food that some are using is called Fermaid-O.

I've got a 100g of Fermaid-A laying around, have you used that before? if so what has your experience been?

I should probably mention that i plan on turning the yeast into a starter and by leaving it sit for 24 hours.

GntlKnigt1 · Aug 28, 2015

Might be too late to comment, but I suspect you might have temp control issues with D47 in 15 gallons. Monitor closely and keep it in mid 60s F. K1 might be a better choice.

Zeebie · Sep 1, 2015

GntlKnigt1 said:
Might be too late to comment, but I suspect you might have temp control issues with D47 in 15 gallons. Monitor closely and keep it in mid 60s F. K1 might be a better choice.

I looked into the temp control issues before hand. Today is the first day of spring so the ambient temp outside is still fairly cold. I have the Container sitting in a bathtub in my spare bathroom (spare bathroom is the coldest room in the house) by sitting it in the bath tub, if needed i could flush cold water/ice around the outside of the container, or warm water if the temp got too low. How ever that has not been required. It has sat on a stable 64.4F (18c) for the last few days.

(I started at 6:30pm on 28/8/2015, and have been checking it each day and looking after it, as of 30minutes ago when i checked it; 01/9/2015 we had hit the 1/3 Sugar Break point)

At this stage it is ripping along quite nicely with no dramas.

Squatchy · Sep 1, 2015

What temps are you trying to maintain?

kudapucat · Sep 9, 2015

Spring? Are you down my way? If you're not in Tasmania, southern Chile or South Africa, I doubt your bathroom will be enough.

Where do you live? Also, take a moment to update your profile so we don't need to ask.

Zeebie · Sep 10, 2015

kudapucat said:
Spring? Are you down my way? If you're not in Tasmania, southern Chile or South Africa, I doubt your bathroom will be enough.

Where do you live? Also, take a moment to update your profile so we don't need to ask.

I live near mountain baw baw in Victoria, I also have zoned heating/cooling in the house, the back end of my house is closed off and doesn't get used, so the zoned temp keeps it fairly low and the ambient room temperature is stable. The Mead temp is sitting comfortable at 18c and has been sitting at that for the last 12 days.

kudapucat · Sep 10, 2015

Lovely!
I'm heading up that way quite often, this week in fact.
Be careful though, the weather will spike up drastically over the next 8 weeks.
Let me know if you'd like to organise a swap at some point?
Are you in Mansfield, or one of the smaller towns?

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