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  1. Default D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    Here's the recipe (Started 3/1/08 at 2:30pm) This was my first 5 gallon batch. Been making 1 gallon batches for years with no issues.

    for 5 gallons
    12.5 lbs honey
    2 tsp acid blend
    1 tsp grape tannin
    3 grams di-ammonium phosphate
    OG 1.100 - just what I wanted

    re-hydrated D-47 per package instructions. Yeast purchased in December.
    no activity after 24 hours.

    Ran to homebrew store for new package of yeast. Re-hydrated per package instructions
    no activity after 24 hours.

    Placing a weight on top of fermentor lid displaces fluid in airlock which holds it's level over time so the fermentor is sealed.

    Opening fermentor it's obvious there is no activity.

    Now what? Is this salvageable?

    I have a packet of 71B-1122 and a Red Star Montrachet. Do I try these?

    All the Best,
    D. White

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ithaca, NY
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    4,958

    Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    2 quick things for you to check for us:

    Current SG reading
    Current pH

    Thanks!
    Want to see something added to the GotMead Glossary? PM me! Didn't know we had a glossary? Check the top row of links.

  3. #3

    Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    What are temps where you have your fermenter? I just made a batch of a relatively high-gravity (1.133) sweet mead on Saturday and used D-47 - my lag time was about 16 hours with temps in the mid to upper 60's.

    - GL63

  4. Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwhite
    Here's the recipe (Started 3/1/08 at 2:30pm) This was my first 5 gallon batch. Been making 1 gallon batches for years with no issues.

    for 5 gallons
    12.5 lbs honey
    2 tsp acid blend
    1 tsp grape tannin
    3 grams di-ammonium phosphate
    OG 1.100 - just what I wanted

    re-hydrated D-47 per package instructions. Yeast purchased in December.
    no activity after 24 hours.

    Ran to homebrew store for new package of yeast. Re-hydrated per package instructions
    no activity after 24 hours.

    Placing a weight on top of fermentor lid displaces fluid in airlock which holds it's level over time so the fermentor is sealed.

    Opening fermentor it's obvious there is no activity.

    Now what? Is this salvageable?

    I have a packet of 71B-1122 and a Red Star Montrachet. Do I try these?

    All the Best,
    D. White
    i had same experience as you using a very similar recipe, including yeast. i didn't think it was fermenting because there were no bubbles in air lock. i checked it 6 days later and it had went from 1.090 to 1.010... 8 days later it was 1.000. So at least give it a week and see if SG has changed.

  5. Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    if it comes down to it and you think your yeast is dead, i'd go with the 71 not the red star

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Fusel Shack, in the swamp west of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
    Posts
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    Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    Check your Sp Gravity, and if it is not dropping,

    Check the pH - those acid additions can sometimes stall things, and if that is okay (3.4 or above),
    Aerate the must well, and if no improvement,
    Pitch another yeast - but I would make a starter and acclimate it to your must in a couple of stages.

    I believe there is usually a Date on the D47 package. It wasn't sitting on the store shelf for years was it?
    How did you sanitize your fermenter?

    I hope your batch gets going.

    Medsen
    Lanne pase toujou pi bon
    (Past years are always better)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The OC
    Posts
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    Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    As indicated below by several folks the things to look for are:

    1. pH - Generally D47 doesn't really take off like a rocket if the pH is below 3.4, it will get going, but it may take two to three days
    2. Aeration - Did you aerate the must and continue aerating twice a day?
    3. Ambient Temperature - D47 seems to not like cooler must temperatures to start up. Once it gets going though, all bets are off.
    4. What kind of sanitizer did you use in your fermenter and in your container that you rehydrated the must?
    5. What was the temp of the water you used to rehydrate the yeast?

    Enquiring minds want to know,

    Cheers,

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    POX 181 Covington, OH 45318
    Posts
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    Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time


    Hi guys,

    quick observation: isn't 12.5 lb honey going to be too little for the 5 gals, leaving it bone dry?



    DD

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    908

    Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    DD,

    Yes, 12.5 lb of honey gives a potential ABV of around 12.5%, which D-47 can eat through to dry given the right environment. If the goal is to make a dry Mead, then it is fine. If a sweeter result is desired, then backsweetening or halting of the fermentation may be needed.

    Angus
    Chan fhíach cuírm gun a còmhradh

    A feast is no use without good talk.

  10. Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    Well, last night I finally got some activity. I was getting a "burp" every three minutes or so.

    This morning I was getting one every 62 seconds. It's about the same now.

    Temperature in fermentor location is 70F.

    Current SG is 1.096. The PH strips I have only go down to 4.6 and it's apparently lower than that.
    The taste is not terribly tart though. I've used 1 tsp of the same acid blend in recipes with similar OG's
    made in one gallon batches. I tried to be sparing on the acid blend planning to add more later, if
    necessary.

    I opened it and stirred it again this afternoon. There's obviously CO2 being produced. I'm less nervous
    now and willing to give it more time like it is.

    I'm still open to advice.

    As for only 12.5 lbs of honey. I wanted it dry. I've got LOTS of sweet mead sitting around.

    Yeast was re-hydrated in 104F water per package instructions.

    Sterilized fermentor with Iodophor solution. I never sterilize the container I rehydrate yeast in.
    I always use a very clean glass for rehydrating.

    All the Best,
    D. White

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    The OC
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    Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    See if you can get the temperature up to 74 F and aerate the heck out of it. Wrap a blanket around the carboy and let it get going. Aerate about 4x/day for a day or so and if it doesn't kick up I'd suggest that you get some K bicarbonate and a pH meter to make sure you're not down below 3.4 or so.

    Cheers,

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  12. Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    I just wanted to say thanks for all the suggestions. What a great bunch of people.

    All the Best,
    Dwhite

  13. Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    I was away from home and out of town overnight so I couldn't do anything with it.

    This evening when I got home it's still bubbling along very slowly. I opened it and
    stirred it again. Gravity is 1.092 so it is moving. I have is setting in a warm bath
    right now trying to jump start it. I'll wrap it in a blanket overnight to see what
    happens.

    I have not gotten anything to measure the acidity yet though. This will have to
    wait until this weekend.

    All the Best,
    Doug White

  14. Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    After doing some research I found a reference to D-47 needing a LOT
    of nutrient during the initial (aerobic) stage of fermentation.

    I grabbed my di-ammonium phosphate and dissolved two and a half
    teaspoons (about 10 grams) in a cup of water and added it to the
    fermentor and stirred it in.

    This morning (6am) I had a burp every 20 seconds. It's now (2:30pm) burping
    every 10 seconds. I guess it was just hungry?

    After pulling it out of the bath last night it was about 75 degrees. I
    went ahead and put a light blanket around it to help hold the heat.

    All the Best,
    D. White

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    I'm glad your batch is going strong. When using D47, I have found that at 75F I get an awful lot of fusel alcohol production. I hope you are luckier than me with it.

    Medsen
    Lanne pase toujou pi bon
    (Past years are always better)

  16. Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    This burped along at about 6-7 burps a minute and gradually slowed to 4 burps per minute
    by Sunday afternoon. Monday evening I measured the SG at 1.080. I expected it would have
    dropped further. I added another 2 teaspoons of di-ammonium phosphate Monday
    evening and we're back up to 10 burps a minute. This seems very nutrient intensive.

    All the Best,
    D. White

  17. #17
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    Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    The thing that's killing you here is the acid, not the yeast. D47 is a high nitrogen needs yeast, but that is relative and by comparison to other yeast. Whenever you alter the environment (especially with regards to pH) you compromise the ability of the yeast to take up nitrogen and regulate osmotic pressure.

    DAP isn't buying you anything at this point in the fermentation either since the yeast are looking for a different form of nitrogen. It may help your ferment if you add 5 grams of Fermaid K. It has amino nitrogen and several other micronutrients that will be more beneficial than DAP at this point.

    Hope that helps,

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  18. Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    Thanks Oskaar. I'll try to find some fermaid-K.

    All the Best,
    D. White

  19. Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    I'm having a similar lag with the D47 I used in my cyser.

    My recipe was:
    2 gallons unflitered cider
    4 lbs wildflower honey
    3 sticks of cinnimon
    4 whole cloves
    1 pack of D47 dry yeast

    I rehydrated the yeast as per package instructions (@ 100*f) and pitched it into 102* must. It is currently stored in my basement with an ambient temp of 70*. Did I pitch the yeast at too high of a temp? Should I have added nutrient supplement to the must or is it too late?

    I pitched the yeast at noon yesterday and the water in the air lock hasn't moved once. I'm used to brewing beer and seeing much faster fermentation. Perhaps I am just rushing and panicing over nothing?


  20. #20
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    Default Re: D47 and Looooooooooong lag time

    Welcome skrapiron!

    I wouldn't get worried yet. Yes, 102F must is too warm but give them a little time. In the meantime, you want to aerate the must really well at least daily for the first few days. In the future, for best results, follow the manufacturer's recommendations for rehydration and use GoFerm. That will get your yeast ready to move.

    The cider has a lot of nutrients in it, so I don't think you need to add any at this stage. If by tomorrow it is not going, you may want to repitch the yeast.

    Endeavor to persevere!
    Medsen
    Lanne pase toujou pi bon
    (Past years are always better)

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