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Thread: filtration

  1. Default filtration

    can't seem to get the hang of bottling without some debris in the stream, would an inline water filer cause detrimental effects to the mead? Not carbon, just a 20 ppm sediment filter. food grade designed for ice machines.

  2. #2
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    It sounds like your mead isn't clear, and if you get it clear before bottling, this is not an issue, though you may still have sediment form later in the bottles if the mead is not fined or otherwise protein stabilized. An in-line filter can be used if it doesn't cause turbulence with aeration, but if yours is 20 micron, that won't be of much help for preventing sediment.
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  3. #3
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    Also my experience with attempting to even filter out large chunks when racking is that unless you have some way to force the liquid to keep going, it won't. Even something as simple as a coffee filter ruins the siphoning ability of a simple racking cane.
    ~AToE (A Thing of Eternity... it's a nerd thing...)

    AKA: Alan H

  4. #4

    Default

    i was gonna use some pantihose to strain mine, you could put it as far down the jug your racking to as you want. sounded like a good idea to me.

  5. #5
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    I've used that, doesn't work super well on the sucking end of the cane, but used on the other end with some loose space at the end it might work for big chunks of stuff (but only the no so big that they clog your cane end chunks of course!).
    ~AToE (A Thing of Eternity... it's a nerd thing...)

    AKA: Alan H

  6. Default

    I'm not sure you'd have any success in using an inline filter. The headloss created by a filter fine enough to capture the kinds of particles you want to filter would probably require you to have a significant level difference between your carboy and your bottles, like more than just from the counter to the floor.

    You might consider using a large-area filter on each bottle as you rack. A large filter would have more surface area for the fluid to filter through than an inline filter, and you wouldn't have the headloss issue.

  7. #7
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    I prefer to rack "chunky" musts with a little strip of cheesecloth wrapped around the end of the racking cane and then let the smaller stuff settle out naturally (or with some bentonite, that stuff's been amazing when it does anything) before I bottle, and just accept that since I'm a klutz and can't help but jiggle things around while getting started, the first and last bottles may have some sediment...
    "The main ingredient needed is 'time' followed closely by 'patience'." - The Bishop 2013
    "When you consider that laziness and procrastination are the fundamentals of great mead, it is a miracle that the mazer cup happens." Medsen Fey, 2014
    "Sure it can be done. I've never heard of it, but I do things I've never heard if all the time. That is the beauty of being a brewer!" - Loveofrose, 2014
    "I tend to....um, er, experiment, and go outside the box. Sometimes outside the whole department store." - Ebonhawk, 2014

  8. #8

    Default

    You could use fluid dynamics to your advantage with a filter.

    It's the weight of the liquid in the tube that creates the pressure at the bottom.

    For example, a 2" fire hose gains or loses 3psi per foot of elevation change. I doubt a standard racking hose/cane gains 1 psi over three feet of elevation change.

    Pour the finished ferment into a tube 2" wide and several feet tall then at the bottom neck it down to standard size hose you should get some hellacious pressure...

    hrmmm, except it would peter out as it got towards the bottom and wouldn't maintain pressure through the filter....

    ok, now I'm over thinking but I like the thought exercise
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  9. #9
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    Static pressure is proportional to height. Nothing else.
    Pipes have resistance. Resistance reduces flow. If you maintain flow then it can be said there is a pressure loss in the pipe.
    With no flow, a pipe will gain 3psi per foot (?? Too many silly units - trusting you here) no matter what diameter it is.
    However taking flow into account, the pressure of the fluid when it leaves the pipe will be less than what was pushed into it, due to resistance.
    Pressure =Resistance * flow.
    If you add a 1' drop then you're adding 1' of head to your initial pressure. This is regardless of the pipe diameter.
    Mae'r teithiau golau ceffyl eto

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loadnabox View Post
    I doubt a standard racking hose/cane gains 1 psi over three feet of elevation change.
    To create a siphon, the tube/hose must be rigid, otherwise the atmospheric pressure would collapse the tube. The static pressure difference is directly proportional the the difference in elevation of the tops of the two bodies of liquid, in the case, the liquid in the host and receiving carboys. The static pressure difference for a fluid with a S.G. of 1.000 is 0.433 psi/ft. of elevation difference. So starting at 3' of difference results in a pressure 1.3 psi. Of course this pressure decreases as the fluid is siphoned because the tops of the bodies of fluid get closer together.

    Dynamic flow rates are a function of the resistance to flow of both the liquid and the tubing.
    Age improves with mead, even more than mead improves with age.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PitBull View Post
    <snip>
    The static pressure difference for a fluid with a S.G. of 1.000 is 0.433 psi/ft. of elevation difference. So starting at 3' of difference results in a pressure 1.3 psi.
    <snip>
    This is why I like metric.
    10kPa/metre
    1 ATM or volume per 10 metres
    Thanks pitbull. I was a touch rusty and scared I'd make a mistake if I tried to explain it that well.
    Mae'r teithiau golau ceffyl eto

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kudapucat View Post
    This is why I like metric.
    10kPa/metre
    1 ATM or volume per 10 metres
    I think most engineers would prefer the metric (SI) system to the old english (SAE) system that even England no longer uses. The metric system is just so much easier to use.

    But we've had that discussion here before....
    Age improves with mead, even more than mead improves with age.

  13. Default thanks all again

    my problem seems to be stirring up the must with the cane, I actually have a good way to start the siphon, and it wasn't an "auto-siphon", a product I found woefully in adequate, I start the siphon, now, by adding pressure to the bottle via a fish tank pump, worked very well.

    for the cane flipping around, I will fashion something more stable than the clip, also inadequate device, in my opinion.

    The question of head, flow rate , and fluid velocity was considered, but I'm using equipment and suggestions that are recommended in most blogs and two different books, so it must just be me, or the way I'm doing it

    and for 30 years, the imperial engineering units have served me well, it is just what you are used to.

  14. #14
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    When bottling, I have a bottle filler valve on the end and I have one hand on that and the other hand holding the racking cane steady... and set everything up so one-handed operation is feasible. I also find it's easier to keep it steady if you have something stationary to restrain the hose, and I also will often get the racking started with the cane only halfway down into the carboy to avoid stirring up crap since I am an avowed klutz, then as the level goes down, I slowly let the cane down before it starts sucking air.
    "The main ingredient needed is 'time' followed closely by 'patience'." - The Bishop 2013
    "When you consider that laziness and procrastination are the fundamentals of great mead, it is a miracle that the mazer cup happens." Medsen Fey, 2014
    "Sure it can be done. I've never heard of it, but I do things I've never heard if all the time. That is the beauty of being a brewer!" - Loveofrose, 2014
    "I tend to....um, er, experiment, and go outside the box. Sometimes outside the whole department store." - Ebonhawk, 2014

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