Shop Bee Folks for your Honey!Shop Bee Folks for your Honey!
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38

Thread: Paper Bottles?

  1. #1

    Default Paper Bottles?

    http://gizmodo.com/5861146/will-wine...a-paper-bottle

    Interesting article about bottles made of paper. The inside is actually lined with the material wine bags are made of.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    8,394

    Default

    That's neat. I wonder how the corking works?
    "The main ingredient needed is 'time' followed closely by 'patience'." - The Bishop 2013
    "When you consider that laziness and procrastination are the fundamentals of great mead, it is a miracle that the mazer cup happens." Medsen Fey, 2014
    "Sure it can be done. I've never heard of it, but I do things I've never heard if all the time. That is the beauty of being a brewer!" - Loveofrose, 2014
    "I tend to....um, er, experiment, and go outside the box. Sometimes outside the whole department store." - Ebonhawk, 2014

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    2,373

    Default

    Screw tops?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Between Jackson and Detroit
    Posts
    2,003

    Default

    Gonna have to plastic coat them or something, else I see the bottles having issues with moisture and decomposing...
    Bees stole my signature file!

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skunkboy View Post
    Gonna have to plastic coat them or something, else I see the bottles having issues with moisture and decomposing...
    They are lined with the same bladder that gets used for wine in a box.

  6. #6

    Default

    I know the article says it has '10% of the carbon footprint" but what about the renewability of the process. I just know that paper is made from trees and glass is made from silica, one of the most common elements on the planet.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    8,394

    Default

    It takes a LOT of energy to make glass out of silica, and you can use other things than trees to make paper. Like hemp or recycled paper...
    "The main ingredient needed is 'time' followed closely by 'patience'." - The Bishop 2013
    "When you consider that laziness and procrastination are the fundamentals of great mead, it is a miracle that the mazer cup happens." Medsen Fey, 2014
    "Sure it can be done. I've never heard of it, but I do things I've never heard if all the time. That is the beauty of being a brewer!" - Loveofrose, 2014
    "I tend to....um, er, experiment, and go outside the box. Sometimes outside the whole department store." - Ebonhawk, 2014

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Calgary AB Canada
    Posts
    4,066

    Default

    One of the other major issues with glass is weight - to transport the same volume of liquid in glass vs plastic vs "tetrapack" or whatever costs/consumes more.

    Comparing things becomes extremely complicated. One thing to remember too is that a great deal of pulp that becomes paper was never good wood, it's the sawdust and excess from cutting good wood into planks (which is why with paper "recycled" is a meaning less term, it's almost all recycled, what you want is "post consumer recycled").

    Hemp and bamboo are the answers to a lot of the consumption problems we have, hemp unfortunately had a run in with cotton a long while back and cotton won in the courtrooms/politics.
    ~AToE (A Thing of Eternity... it's a nerd thing...)

    AKA: Alan H

  9. #9

    Default

    Ok, that guy tells me he's making the bottles out of 'post consumer recycled paper', bamboo, or hemp, or something else like that, I'm cool. But I"ve driven through towns in Kansas that had paper mills glose down 60 years ago when my dad was a kid and the entire town STILL stinks of pollution, chemical, and rot. Maybe paper's come a long way, maybe I just haven't done the research because of stories from my dad about how essential the paper mill was to their local economy, but how any kid that actually lived near their was constantly made fun of for stench.

    It's most likely a background issue for me and I need to do more research...but I still can't see paper being that great of a recyclable when it's created from non renewable resources.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    8,394

    Default

    They actually run a fermentation on paper pulp that releases a lot of sulphur when it loosens up the fibres (maybe they need better nutrients!), that's what most of the stink is. And you'd think wood chips would compost well but my husband's family has a cottage around the corner from where a wood mill used to be and the sawdust pile's as big as a house and has been there for decades too.

    AToE, at Thanksgiving this year I collected the wine bottles and two or three of them advertised that they were lightweight bottles, something like 15% less glass to save on shipping and production.
    "The main ingredient needed is 'time' followed closely by 'patience'." - The Bishop 2013
    "When you consider that laziness and procrastination are the fundamentals of great mead, it is a miracle that the mazer cup happens." Medsen Fey, 2014
    "Sure it can be done. I've never heard of it, but I do things I've never heard if all the time. That is the beauty of being a brewer!" - Loveofrose, 2014
    "I tend to....um, er, experiment, and go outside the box. Sometimes outside the whole department store." - Ebonhawk, 2014

  11. #11

    Default

    The real question is will it be reusable for the home brewer? I consider reusing my wine bottles for mead as recycling in an eco friendly way. They don't end up in a landfill so I'm not adding to the "problem".

    Now, if these bottles catch on we have to look 10+ years in the future when real glass bottles would become quite rare, wouldn't you think? Then buying a case of reusable glass bottles would make you look like a non-eco friendly person because you're not using recyclable bottles!

    Maybe we'll all be homebrewing into plastic water bottles by then anyway, who knows!?!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    2,373

    Default

    Recycling paper is not at all good for the environment, which is why I don't recycle it. There are items that are worth recycling, but paper's not one of them.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Calgary AB Canada
    Posts
    4,066

    Default

    I've had some questions about that myself, but I have yet to find any hard data that really proves to me one way or the other whether recycling paper does more or less damage than just tossing it and using new paper... I err on the side of recycling it until I find the data though because so far I see more experts saying it's good than that it's bad... just not at the point where I personally understand everything involved well enough yet. Need to do more digging.

    At the end of the day recycling is largely bandaid anyways, reducing consumption in the first place is far more effective (instead of buying bottles of water all the time, buy a few and keep refilling them being one obvious example).

    Or as said above, keep reusing bottles for homebrew, great example of simply reducing consumption in the first place (as is homebrew itself actually, far less shipping pollution involved per drink, FAR less).
    ~AToE (A Thing of Eternity... it's a nerd thing...)

    AKA: Alan H

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    8,394

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AToE View Post
    Or as said above, keep reusing bottles for homebrew, great example of simply reducing consumption in the first place (as is homebrew itself actually, far less shipping pollution involved per drink, FAR less).
    I was going to point out that in comparing reusing versus recycling, reusing is best in our case but not so feasible for a large-scale producer, I don't believe they're permitted to reuse wine bottles, are they?

    There are a lot of factors to weigh, we did a study one time in university on which used more energy and resources, cloth or disposable diapers, and they came out about the same... just differently applied.
    "The main ingredient needed is 'time' followed closely by 'patience'." - The Bishop 2013
    "When you consider that laziness and procrastination are the fundamentals of great mead, it is a miracle that the mazer cup happens." Medsen Fey, 2014
    "Sure it can be done. I've never heard of it, but I do things I've never heard if all the time. That is the beauty of being a brewer!" - Loveofrose, 2014
    "I tend to....um, er, experiment, and go outside the box. Sometimes outside the whole department store." - Ebonhawk, 2014

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chevette Girl View Post
    I was going to point out that in comparing reusing versus recycling, reusing is best in our case but not so feasible for a large-scale producer, I don't believe they're permitted to reuse wine bottles, are they?

    There are a lot of factors to weigh, we did a study one time in university on which used more energy and resources, cloth or disposable diapers, and they came out about the same... just differently applied.
    No they can not reuse bottles and if there is a problem with any wine/beer that has been bottled or if it is a shortfill, it gets poured out and the bottles broken and thrown away. We get a LOT of champagne style bottles this way from DFH. As homebrewers, I honestly think glass is the better way to go, but for a pro a bottle like this may cut cost.

    Also, glass bottles aren't as easy to come by as some might think. DFH had run into a shortage of bottles because there was a shortage of the right type of silica - not all silica is created equal.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    2,373

    Default

    I'd think that if ANY brewery would come up with a crazy-fun bottling alternative it'd be DFH.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Calgary AB Canada
    Posts
    4,066

    Default

    I have no idea about wine bottles in Canada, and I know in the US glass bottles aren't reused, they're melted down and remade.

    But in Canada beer bottles are just straight up refilled. You can tell when you've got a really old one in your hand because it looks like it's been lightly sandblasted around the top and bottom of the widest part... this method is so far superior to melting and remaking that it frankly blows my mind that it isn't the standard everywhere.
    ~AToE (A Thing of Eternity... it's a nerd thing...)

    AKA: Alan H

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Elk Grove, CA
    Posts
    2,373

    Default

    Back in the ancient times (when Wayne, Dan, and I were younglings) most bottles were collected, washed, and reused. Pity they still aren't. They reuse glass soda bottles in Norway, and beer too, I think.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Calgary AB Canada
    Posts
    4,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wildoates View Post
    Back in the ancient times (when Wayne, Dan, and I were younglings) most bottles were collected, washed, and reused. Pity they still aren't. They reuse glass soda bottles in Norway, and beer too, I think.
    What happened to make it stop? I just can't fathom why they'd melt the intact ones!
    ~AToE (A Thing of Eternity... it's a nerd thing...)

    AKA: Alan H

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    8,394

    Default

    I bet certain agencies have declared the practice unsanitary... all it would take is a lawsuit or two...

    and I haven't seen an "old" beer bottle in years (although I don't drink that much bottled beer so this may not be a valid data point)
    "The main ingredient needed is 'time' followed closely by 'patience'." - The Bishop 2013
    "When you consider that laziness and procrastination are the fundamentals of great mead, it is a miracle that the mazer cup happens." Medsen Fey, 2014
    "Sure it can be done. I've never heard of it, but I do things I've never heard if all the time. That is the beauty of being a brewer!" - Loveofrose, 2014
    "I tend to....um, er, experiment, and go outside the box. Sometimes outside the whole department store." - Ebonhawk, 2014

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Paper for school
    By TDMooney in forum The Hive
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 02-01-2011, 11:42 AM
  2. GotMead.com Made the Local Paper
    By beeboy in forum The Hive
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-12-2011, 09:10 PM
  3. Mead Vinegar Technical Paper
    By lostnbronx in forum The Hive
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-18-2006, 12:44 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •