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Wild yeast fermentation slow

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zhiv9

Worker Bee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2015
34
0
6
Barrie, ON
www.adamshoney.com
Recipe/Process:

Oct 10
~6gal of SG 1.060 - from washed capping
Left for 1 week - fermentation was well started
added 5kg of honey - SG 1.120
2.5tsp of nutriest
1.5 tsp of energizer

Nov 18
Racked to secondary - SG 1.090

Temperature around 72 deg F

Hadn't planned on using wild yeast, but didn't get around to starting the batch until after my cappings wash had already started to ferment. Decide to just go with it. Fermentation is/was pretty slow, but it bubbled pretty steadily and is still bubbling in the secondary. Should I be worried about it?

Thanks

Adam
 

willowhix

NewBee
Registered Member
Sep 18, 2015
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28
Glasgow, Scotland
Perhaps I'm missing something here. I'm new to meadmaking myself, but isn't SG 1.090 quite early to rack into secondary? My understanding is that the fermentation should be more or less finished, quite close to 1.000 before racking. Was there a lot of lees left over in your primary fermenter?
 

zhiv9

Worker Bee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2015
34
0
6
Barrie, ON
www.adamshoney.com
Perhaps I'm missing something here. I'm new to meadmaking myself, but isn't SG 1.090 quite early to rack into secondary? My understanding is that the fermentation should be more or less finished, quite close to 1.000 before racking. Was there a lot of lees left over in your primary fermenter?

I was concerned about leaving it in plastic for longer than 5 weeks. There was a good amount of lees left in the primary. I didn't realize that racking it could slow it down. I actually thought the agitation and extra oxygen might perk things up.
 

zhiv9

Worker Bee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2015
34
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6
Barrie, ON
www.adamshoney.com
I had a look at it tonight and the bubbling had definitely slowed since racking. Any thoughts on whether I should just leave it to run its slow course? I do have some 71B that I could add. Or I could stir it up and add more nutrient? I did taste it when I racked it and there were no apparent off flavours.
 

willowhix

NewBee
Registered Member
Sep 18, 2015
46
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Glasgow, Scotland
In regards to adding nutrient or repitching, I'll refer to Squatchy's advice on my own thread.

http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php/25190-Stuck-fermentation-with-D-47

Also when fermentation is complete, I'd personally rack again into another container just to get it off the lees. Otherwise, I'd be worried about clarifying and off-flavours from the dead yeast (particularily if I didn't know anything about the type of yeast doing the fermenting).
 

zhiv9

Worker Bee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2015
34
0
6
Barrie, ON
www.adamshoney.com
Thanks. I had a chance to have a closer look at it today. Still has an SG of 1.090. PH is below 3. I think that is the problem. I am going to see if I can get some p. Bicarbonate tomorrow and try adding that and giving it a good stir to get it going again. Temps are in the 18 to 20 deg C range so I don't think that is the problem.
 

Squatchy

Lifetime GotMead Patron
Lifetime GotMead Patron
Nov 3, 2014
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Denver
If you can,,, stir,shake, power drill, whatever to get some oxygen back in the must after you add the PC. Let us know what happens with this batch
 

Mazer828

NewBee
Registered Member
Sep 9, 2015
791
4
0
Inland Empire
SG was 1.060. The reading I don't have is right after I washed the cappings.
Help a noob out here. What's this process of washing the cappings? I assume this has something to do with harvesting wild yeast? Love to learn more about your process.
 

zhiv9

Worker Bee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2015
34
0
6
Barrie, ON
www.adamshoney.com
Help a noob out here. What's this process of washing the cappings? I assume this has something to do with harvesting wild yeast? Love to learn more about your process.

When the honey in the comb is finished (cells are full and moisture content is low enough), the bees cap it off with a layer of wax. Before I can extract the honey out of the frames, I have to remove that layer of wax. I use a powered uncapper. You can see a little video of it here: http://tinyurl.com/ory92br. The cappings fall in to the tray below where some of the honey drains to a clarify below that. After this, I scoop the wax cappings into a cappings spinner. It is basically a spinning basket. After a couple of hours spinning in the basket, the cappings are fairly dry but still sticky. To get the last of the honey, I wash the cappings, I put these into a stainless steel wax melter that has a valve on the bottom. I fill this with warm water and stir the cappings to wash off the remaining honey. The wax floats to the top and I drain the beginnings of my must out the bottom valve, leaving the wax cappings behind to render. There are wild yeasts on the surface of the cappings that beekeepers have used for centuries to make mead - the first meads were probably made with this yeasts.
 

Mazer828

NewBee
Registered Member
Sep 9, 2015
791
4
0
Inland Empire
Wow. Very interesting! Thank you. Beekeeping is an art I hope to study and learn in the next few years. Funny how the more you learn, the more your methods migrate back to the ancient ones!
 

zhiv9

Worker Bee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2015
34
0
6
Barrie, ON
www.adamshoney.com
Here's an update:

December 3, 2015
Added 21g of Potassium Carbonate to raise PH to 3.5
Gave it a good stir to aerate.

December 6, 2015
No airlock activity
SG 1.090
added 21g of P. Carbonate - PH3.8
add 1 tsp of Fermaid-K

I had planned to wait for a couple of days and see if the wild yeast gets going again. If not, I'll try pitching a commercial yeast. Also open to other suggestions.

Thank again,
 

Marshmallow Blue

NewBee
Registered Member
Might be tough sledding. Next time, it might be best to plate the yeast on agar, select and grow the cultures, then make a large starter from it to ensure healthy cell counts for a mead fermentation. In this case, depending on how many days it's been, it could be time to jump ship and pitch commercial yeast. I've gotten up to about 10-12 days before any mold started to grow in a mead must.
 

zhiv9

Worker Bee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2015
34
0
6
Barrie, ON
www.adamshoney.com
Might be tough sledding. Next time, it might be best to plate the yeast on agar, select and grow the cultures, then make a large starter from it to ensure healthy cell counts for a mead fermentation. In this case, depending on how many days it's been, it could be time to jump ship and pitch commercial yeast. I've gotten up to about 10-12 days before any mold started to grow in a mead must.

Thanks. This was a bit of an accident. Beekeeping has its busy times and the bees come first. After I washed the cappings, the must sat in pail for about a week while dealt with more pressing matters. By the time I got back to it fermentation was well underway, so I just added more honey to bring up the gravity and nutrients to help support the existing fermentation. I was concerned about pitching a commercial yeast, when a wild strain yeast was already established. I should have checked the PH at the beginning and adjusted it then. I have some 71B-1122 at home, if there is now activity when i get home tonight, I will try pitching it.
 

zhiv9

Worker Bee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2015
34
0
6
Barrie, ON
www.adamshoney.com
Another update:

Dec 7, 2015
Rehydrated 6g of 71B-1122 per Lalvin's instructions and pitched

Dec 8, 2015
Fermentation restarted - still very slow.

Dec 9, 2015
Air lock activity still really slow
Stirred and added 1/2 tsp of DAP

Fermentation hasn't really taken off. I am concerned that it still has a long way to go and will fizzle out again before completion. I figured I would take another SG reading early next week to see what kind of progress its made.

If it is just progressing very slowly, am I best just to leave it and see where it ends up? If it is still basically stuck, what is my best bet? Should I make a starter with some of the must watered down a little and pitch again?
 

Mazer828

NewBee
Registered Member
Sep 9, 2015
791
4
0
Inland Empire
Have you tried building up your yeast population with a series of progressively larger starters on a stir plate prior to pitching?
 

zhiv9

Worker Bee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2015
34
0
6
Barrie, ON
www.adamshoney.com
No. I have listed all that I have tried. I don't have a stir plate, but basically what I was asking is the next best step to create a starter with some of the must and then pitching that.
 

Mazer828

NewBee
Registered Member
Sep 9, 2015
791
4
0
Inland Empire
I can't imagine how much or little a yeast population you're starting with. But if it's pretty small, like less than one billion cell count, I'd be tempted to make a 1.040 gravity culture medium using DME, pre boiled and cooled to sanitize it. Perhaps two cups to start with. Pitch your yeast into that and let it grow for 24 hours, swirling every time you think about it. Then the next day, pour off the clear liquid and pitch the slurry into another medium of the same gravity but double the size. Then the third day double it again. There's all kinds of math and factors to be considered to calculate yeast population growth rates, but I'd think after three growth phases you'd have at least 5x your initial population. I usually count conservatively a 50% population growth for each starter I make.
 
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