too high an OG on my cyser?

Pewter_of_Deodar · Oct 21, 2005

memento said:
I have 5 gallons in a 6.5 gallon carboy. There's enough room for expansion. It's not D47, it's wyeast dry mead smack pack. But I will spin the carboy to resuspend the yeast that has settled. Still I'm happy! And it tastes much better. By my calcs it's at 11% ABV at 1.075 SG.

I will reiterate what Brewbear said about being careful while stirring. Even with the huge headspace, if you agitate the must enough, you will end up with gallons of suds all over everything. Just stir enough to get the yeast/lees that are on the bottom of the carboy swirled around to get them back up into the must. After you stir for a few seconds, stop and see what sort of reaction you get. You may be surprised. If the reaction is not too bad, continue to stir some more...

Good luck!

memento · Oct 21, 2005

I did a little spin. I put the carboy on the carpet and spun it around a couple times. It stirred up the lees, slowly rising. No foaming action from that at all. I'll be testing the SG again this weekend, but I don't expect to see much decrease. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong again. Cyser seems to be a much different beast.

If it has slowed way down, should I add energizer? I'm nowhere near the tolerance of the yeast yet.

JAG · Oct 21, 2005

My cyser stopped before reaching the alcohol tolerance too...by quite a bit. Just wondering if anyone knows this to be the case with cysers and why?
Maybe pH? If your must is too acidic, how do you compensate for that?

HighTest · Oct 21, 2005

JAG said:
My cyser stopped before reaching the alcohol tolerance too...by quite a bit. Just wondering if anyone knows this to be the case with cysers and why?

All of my meads finish at, or below, 1.014 - most are below 1.005.

IMO, the critical issues affecting honey must fermentation are:
1) Proper nutrient & nitrogen feeding
2) pH control
3) Oxygenation

The higher the must OG, the more important these factors become to effective fermentation. Some have said I place too much effort on staggered (timed) nutrient additions. However, I'm not the one having problems...

As examples, I have two meads in progress at this time. One is at the end of a 123 point fermentation (present SG =1.004, and still dropping), and my cyser dropped 18 points in the first 24hrs.

Brewbear · Oct 21, 2005

Hey High-Test,
Where the heck you've been, man?
I will echo your points, in my limited experience I've come to understand the importance of O2 and nutrients, especially in high gavity musts. It has been my experience that matching the yeast to the task plays a major role as well. If you use a strain of yeast with high nitrogen/nutrient needs in a must lacking or poor in nutrients and you do not provide them, you are tempting fate. I agree and follow a staggered nutrient addition schedule as well. Let your critics say what they may, you can not stop them, the results will show :-X

Ted

memento · Oct 21, 2005

I guess that settles it then. I'll add nutrients this weekend.

HighTest · Oct 21, 2005

memento said:
I guess that settles it then. I'll add nutrients this weekend.

There's more to it than simply adding them. It's important to add specific amounts at key points during the fermentation process... Further, adding too much at the wrong time can lead to problems.

You might like to read these FAQs: http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showforum=36

HighTest · Oct 21, 2005

Brewbear said:
Hey High-Test,
Where the heck you've been, man?

I'm usually around. Although I'm registered on 5 different brewing forums, I spend most of my time on HBA's board.

Brewbear · Oct 21, 2005

Yup! I noticed that.
Good to see that you pop in hete now and again too :-\

Ted

memento · Oct 22, 2005

ok. hightest. It looks like I SHOULDN'T add it. I'm definitely past the halfway point. I guess all I can do is wait and pray.

I did order some DV10 just in case I need to try to restart it.

HighTest · Oct 22, 2005

memento said:
ok. hightest. It looks like I SHOULDN'T add it. I'm definitely past the halfway point. I guess all I can do is wait and pray.

While you're waiting let's revisit a few points. Your recipe notes you used 3.5 gal of cider and 1.5 gal of honey. Were those US gallons? I see there are some people here that use metric and I want to be sure.

If so, you noted your OG was 1.16. What is the present SG?

memento · Oct 22, 2005

That is US gallons. The SG as of last weekend was 1.075. I'm expecting 1.06 or so when I check tomorrow.

HighTest · Oct 23, 2005

memento said:
That is US gallons. The SG as of last weekend was 1.075. I'm expecting 1.06 or so when I check tomorrow.

Yes, let's see that new SG reading. I suspect it will be lower than 1.075.

BTW, if you check the WYeast website for #3632 yeast you'll see this note, "...Use additional nutrients for mead making." What they are trying to tell you is that you is that because you are fermenting a honey must (and possibly that 3632 yeast also has higher nutrient needs) you should add both yeast nutrients and DAP. But please don't do that now...

memento · Oct 23, 2005

I just checked and it looks like it's stopped. Still 1.075. no change. It tastes good, but I definitely need it to go further. I used additional nutrients with the wyeast. Right now I'm thinking about repitching with a K1V starter. Any other thoughts? I can't test the pH because I don't have the equipment.

HighTest · Oct 23, 2005

That's too bad.

There are a couple of things you can try. But, if the reason your mead stuck is too low a pH, a starter will not help. Neither will more nutients or infusing oxygen.

Personally, if you have the means, I would make a new batch of cyser. However, this time keep the OG down to ~1.100. Use your K1V yeast (you should use 2 packets) and let it ferment to absolute dryness. I would also ensure the yeast was properly rehydrated, and use a staggered nutrient addition schedule. You may find the details here: http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showforum=36 Yes, it's a bit more work. But the point is, it works!

Once your new cyser is ready for it 1st racking (you SG should be below 1.000), you can mix the two cysers to lower the overall SG to a more reasonable value.

If you're willing to do this, I'll work out the math & proportion details for the new cyser and the mixing. Your present cyser can rest where it is until the new cyser is ready to mix.

memento · Oct 23, 2005

Well, doing a bit of research, cider has a pH of 3.6 to 4.0. Can I make that assumption and try raising the pH? What would I use? baking soda?

HighTest · Oct 23, 2005

No, that assumption would not be valid. The reason is that the process of fermentation lowers the pH (more acidic) - I have seen the pH go below 3.00. There's no rule than can be applied here. Unfortunately, a measurement is required. I would not offer a suggested amount of any chemical with insufficient data. Too much can go wrong...

BTW, I would not use baking soda. It is a sodium based compound, which can easily make your mead taste salty. Potassium Carbonate is the chemical I use for pH adjustments when needed.

memento · Oct 23, 2005

I might consider doing a second cyser and mixing. I would need another carboy

you twisted my arm. I'll just have to tell my wife that I have no choice!

The airlock still shows a little activity, that is why I expected the SG to be lower. Am I being too impatient?

What I'm shooting for is a cyser that has an SG of around 1.02. After tasting mine, I think up to 1.04 would be fine. That's part of the reason that I'm still thinking about repitching another yeast. To see if I can get it to drop by 0.04. If I can get that, I'll be happy.

HighTest · Oct 23, 2005

Ok. First I'll need to know the volume of mead you presently have at 1.075. Try to be as specific as possible. I know it hasn't be racked yet. Also, what size carboy is it in?

BTW you'll need 3 containers. One - the present carboy with the 1.075 mead. Two, the carboy for the new cyser. Three, a carboy to rack them into - this will take some planning.

memento · Oct 23, 2005

Well, I hope to have 1 free in a couple of weeks when I bottle my vanilla mead. With the one I'll buy, that makes 2 empty plus the one with my cyser.

It is in a 6.5 gallon carboy. I firmly believe it to be 6.5 gallon. Strange size, but it's old and wasn't originally for brewing. I also believe to be very close to 5 actual gallons.

too high an OG on my cyser?

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