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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The OC
    Posts
    7,874

    Default Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Hi All, Rant follows:

    I just got off the phone with St Pat's today and I have never, ever been treated so rudely and arrogantly in my entire time as a home winemaker, brewer and mazer. I asked a pretty simple question about a product I purchased off their website as a cleaner and sanitizer.

    Text follows from their website follows:


    Powdered product for washing and sanitizing wine filter cartridges. Instructions included on each jar. After cleaning a filter, allow the filter to completely dry and store dry. 20 grams/liter. 250 gram vial is enough for 12 cleanings.


    Well, I thought it was a pretty simple question, is it a cleaner or sanitizer or both?

    The guy who I spoke to said it was for breaking down protiens and it's more of a cleaner than a sanitizer. So I asked about contact time to be sure that the protiens had been broken down. He said that there's really no time limit, and that you just have to figure it out yourself when the color changes the protiens have been reduced. I asked how I would tell that with mead since most of the stuff I make is not going to have much if any color.

    This is where the conversation turned ugly.

    He gave off some incredibly arrogant and condescending attitude when I read him the text above from his own website and he immediately said if I didn't like the product or if I felt that I was being deceived to send it back and they'd return my money.

    I said, wait a second, I'm just reading you stuff off the website, your website that is. He went on about he is a PhD chemist and Homebrewers aren't their target demographic anymore and every question he had answered fully and I had two more questions for each answer.

    I said, hold on there pal, I'm a customer, I spent money with you people and you're treating me like this? I told him no one had ever treated me like this in any other dealings I've had with equipment/supplies purchases. He continued to bag on Homebrewers and amatuer brewers and said this is why they don't want to service us anymore because we have such petty little questions and he doesn't care that we spent money there because we're getting something for what we are paying and that is sufficient. That's when the yelling started on both ends. We went back and forth and I finally hung up because it was obvious this guy is a freaking loon with a massive superiority complex.



    Well, just let me say here and now to St Pats that I will be going out of my way to speak with the many friends and I have in the commercial Beer, Wine and Mead Business (including my cousin who has just purchased a winery in Ensenada, Mexico) and urging them not to do business with your company.

    I will post this message on every wine, beer and mead website that will allow it, and urge them not to do business with you as well. Your behavior as a business operator was deplorable and the way you treated me was unprofessional, uncalled for and completely inappropriate.



    Oskaar <-------- Getting out his business card file and heading to http://www.morebeer.com to post this in their forums
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's

    Ouch. Sorry to hear this.

    Did you get his name? PhD chemist or not, from the description
    of the conversation this person has no business dealing with
    customers. I'd shoot a note to this guy's immediate supervisor.
    Odds are, you're not the only person he's treated this way.

    <><><><><><><><><><>
    <><><><><><><><>
    Dan McFeeley

    "Meon an phobail a thogail trid an chultur"
    (The people's spirit is raised through culture)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    908

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's

    Oskaar,

    Bravo! I despise companies that treat their customers with complete and utter condescension and I fully support you standing by your principles and boycotting them.

    Angus

    P.S. Your title is a little misleading. Oskaar boycotting St. Patrick's Day? Sure, and the Cubs will one day win the World Series.
    Chan fhíach cuírm gun a còmhradh

    A feast is no use without good talk.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The OC
    Posts
    7,874

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Hi Dan,

    No he didn't identify himself but from the phone calls I've already made, it seems that their arrogance and poor customer treatment are not just a result of catching someone on a bad day.

    To me, it is a fundamental maxim of business that the attitude of the person representing the company on the phone is reflective of the management and ownership policy by direct or implied decree. If they don't teach their employees manners and proper customer service then their customer service attitude is reflective of that, and in this case I think it pretty much sums up their approach to business. Especially from the stories I've heard thus far in the few phone calls I've made.

    I think most people just kind of hang up the phone and don't say anything about it. I'm not that kind of person.

    Cheers,

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 1996
    Location
    Youngsville, NC
    Posts
    1,617

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Pete, I would also send a strongly worded message via snail- or e-mail to the owner. I did this with Dell, and not only did I get routed to US support instead of India from now on, but a sales rep made me a helluva deal on a laptop, several hundred dollars lower than I would have been able to get on my own. Letters work.

    Even if they're determined to piss off the homebrew market, it can't hurt. And if the owner reflects the treatment you got, we have an 'official' response to take to both the home and professional mead-making community.

    Wassail!

    Vicky Rowe
    Owner & Webmistress, Gotmead.com
    Executive Director, American Mead Makers Association
    http://www.mead-makers.org
    Making Mead since 1995

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The OC
    Posts
    7,874

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Good idea!

    I'll do that.

    Cheers,

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  7. Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Oskaar,

    Years ago, I used to order a lot of supplies from St. Pats. They used to be one of the few players on the web and were always a good source for old world grains. I quit doing business with them after I noticed an attitude change. They have gotten progressively worse since they stopped catering to homebrewers (I have heard complaints from others beside yourself). It's like we are waaay beneath them now. Anytime a brewing friend asks for website/ store suggestions I tell them about Northern Brewer, MoreBeer, E.C. Kraus, Williams Brewing...Any place but St. Pats!

    As for mr. PhD, well I can tell you that I work with A LOT of PhD's and having that designation on their name says nothing about character or mental capacity. In fact, it seems like more willing they are to throw the degree around the less personable they be.

    Peace.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 1996
    Location
    Youngsville, NC
    Posts
    1,617

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Y'all keep an eye out here at GM. Jay of Jay's Brewing is going to have a store on our site. I hope to launch next week sometime. I've also got an herb shop (waiting on her data), a honey supplier (and planning on getting a second one), a mug maker, custom glassware and wine racks.

    So, if you want mead-making supplies, lets get them from Jay, one of our own. Give us your 'ideal world' list (I'll tell Jay about it), and make a list: if you could have anything in a shop for your meadmaking, what do you want. List your fav yeasts, adjuncts, tools, equipment, etc. Jay has a lot, but we can help him reach our community here (and meadmakers everywhere) by telling him what we need.


    The thread is here: http://www.gotmead.com/index.php?opt...3&topic=3208.0 - go make your lists!
    Wassail!

    Vicky Rowe
    Owner & Webmistress, Gotmead.com
    Executive Director, American Mead Makers Association
    http://www.mead-makers.org
    Making Mead since 1995

  9. Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Who is this "Pete" you speak of? :P

  10. #10

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Home brewers are beneath them hey? I wonder were they think brewers come from who own commercial breweries? You learn by making it yourself, even if you train at a commercial brewery you still tinker at home. And Allot of home brewers know commercial outfits, your shooting yourself in the foot if that’s your attitude.

    And the Phd thing kind of makes sense, you spend a long while locked in a room reading writing and experimenting to get your Phd, you shouldn’t then be put into customer service. If you have ever had a lecturer who has just got that Dr. in front of there name, you can tell they know there stuff, but they have a horrid method of communicating it.

    Snail mail is probably a better idea for a complaint letter.

    Mu.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Hey Oskaar,

    At this point, I'd get a couple large fish from the market, seal them in a waxed box and mail them to the store. Nothing say unhappy like stinking fish.

    Dmntd

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The OC
    Posts
    7,874

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    LOL,

    I have pFredd who is always willing to donate his . . . er .. . ah... support to the cause! LOL

    Hey Homey, I've actually had several PhD's working for me on various projects in differing capacities and I concur with your estimation. I always said ABC PhD BFD, if you perform you're on the team if not you're shakin' pom poms! Good avatar dude! TERAPIN DA DE DAH DAH!

    Cheers,

    O
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Port Orange, Florida, USA
    Posts
    350

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Go for it Oskaar, give them he11, over the last few years being rude has become common in customer service mainly because no one complains. Just my .02 cents

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The OC
    Posts
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    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Evidently St Pat's has a pretty bad reputation throughout the homebrewing community:


    http://forum.northernbrewer.com/view...1e0e9066094ff8

    http://hbd.org/discus/messages/26895...tml?1118529737

    http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?s...at&#39;s&st=15

    http://www.tastybrew.com/forum/thread/23261


    Interesting,

    Oskaar

    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The OC
    Posts
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    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Hmmm,

    It seems that there are several very useable URL's available that have not been registered as a domain yet. I predict this will change in the immediate future.

    Cheers,

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    I ordered my Enlomatic Filling Machine from them and had no problem, but then I never required customer service. They seem to be the only place that carries replacement parts so I might be stuck if I need any. There seems to be a few rules of thumb for ordering from St. Pat's after reading all the Posts, including her Taliban response.

    1. Only order 1 item at a time to decrease the likelyhood that they get it wrong.
    2. Never order anything that needs welding.
    3. Never order anything perishable.
    4. Never order anything fragile.
    5. If you have a problem, Kiss Lynn's Ass and Lick it Clean while thanking her for the personal attention she's granting you... do so before, during and after relating your obviously trivial problem and continue until well after it's resolved.

    Wrathwilde

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The OC
    Posts
    7,874

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Amen to that!

    Hmmm, looks like it's time to start some site design concepts!

    LOL

    Cheers,

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The OC
    Posts
    7,874

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Oskaar <------- Up on SoapBox

    OK clearly these guys are complete losers. I've burned up the web today researching this business and they clearly don't give a rat's ass about homebrewers or anyone else who dares to question them when they f#ck-up. Can you believe this? EVERY MAJOR HOME RELATED BREWING FORUM THAT I WENT TO TODAY HAS HORROR STORIES ABOUT THESE IDIOTS!

    I've spoken to two of my friends in the wine business that have had run ins with them, and they treat them the same. My friends have no problem yanking their business from St Pats. That's two small wineries Lynn! Get ready for more.

    I'll also be calling St Pats' direct competitors to see if they can offer incentive programs to current St Pats customers if they leave.

    That just screams out for something to be done. I have to noodle on this for a bit, but, I'll come up with something . . . creative and within the confines of legality . . . barely. I'm a big believer in "Visibility breeds accountability" so I'll probably start with that in mind.

    Cheers,

    Oskaar <--------- gonna sleep on the soapbox and wake up crankier than hell!
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

  19. Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    No mercy. Use the rage of Gollom to do all that you can. I hate companies like this; thanks for the heads up.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The OC
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    7,874

    Default Re: Oskaar Boycotting St. Pat's Brewing Supplies

    Well, here we are on day two. Not really much to add here. It's well known across the web that Lynn and her crew of cretins are piss poor at customer service, and have hacked off a lot of people who have stopped doing business with them as a result. I think I've added several more people to that list from the commercial sector as of the last couple of days.

    I've also devised a clever and effective way of getting the word out to the commercial community about how terrible St Pat's treats the Home Mead/Wine/Beer community that will be of interest to them since many Commercial producers came from the ranks of home producers.

    But, I'm getting ahead of myself and there is much to do with so much happening in January in Northern California.

    Cheers,

    Oskaar
    Is it tasty . . . precious?

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