Fun with kit wines!

[Chevette Girl]

I'm such a lab rat, I can never leave anything alone, always gotta mess with the recipe

Has anyone else ever played around with kit wines? Any other cool ideas? I get bored so quickly with grape wines... ;D

I made a sparkling tropical riesling by messing up the stabilization. Very tasty and we kept it cool and drank it quickly so as to avoid bottle-bomb.

I also like to take a cheap 23L white wine kit (California White is about $35 at my local supplier), follow all the directions but add two cans of Welch's Raspberry Concentrate after stablilizing (like adding a fruit pack), makes a nice light, slightly sweetened summer wine.

Most recently, I took a zinfandel blush 23L kit complete with oak chips and only added enough water to make up 3 gallons, it's a cute little cheat that gives something approximating an ice-wine. I think I over-oaked mine but what the heck, at least I now know the taste of "too much" and I suspect it'll mellow over time. Starting SG was 1.030, finishing SG was 1.010 when I stablized it after getting it off the oak chips. It's ready for fining after a bit more degassing...

I read an older book recently (Stanley F Anderson with Raymond Hull, "The Art of Making Wine" (c) 1968 ) and it had a lot to say about making sherries, ports and madieras, and one suggestion was to use a 23L wine kit, use a good strong yeast, sherry flor if you can get it or a yeast intended for port (which I have procured, Lalvin D47 as recommended by local place although by the yeast table I might do better with my old standby Lalvin 1118 ), and only dilute the concentrate to 4 gallons, aerate the hell out of it but rack it into a 23L carboy so it gets extra oxygen... that's the next experiment I have planned as I like sherry and port a lot because of the oxidation, but I did a tally today and I've got 22 gallons of various things that are ready to be bottled and I'm not allowed to start anything big until I actually bottle at least half of that...

(sorry about mixing units between litres and gallons but I don't honestly know how many litres my 3-gal carboy actually holds, no idea if it's US or Imp)

 

[fatbloke]

I'm such a lab rat, I can never leave anything alone, always gotta mess with the recipe

Has anyone else ever played around with kit wines? Any other cool ideas? I get bored so quickly with grape wines... ;D

I made a sparkling tropical riesling by messing up the stabilization. Very tasty and we kept it cool and drank it quickly so as to avoid bottle-bomb.

I also like to take a cheap 23L white wine kit (California White is about $35 at my local supplier), follow all the directions but add two cans of Welch's Raspberry Concentrate after stablilizing (like adding a fruit pack), makes a nice light, slightly sweetened summer wine.

Most recently, I took a zinfandel blush 23L kit complete with oak chips and only added enough water to make up 3 gallons, it's a cute little cheat that gives something approximating an ice-wine. I think I over-oaked mine but what the heck, at least I now know the taste of "too much" and I suspect it'll mellow over time. Starting SG was 1.030, finishing SG was 1.010 when I stablized it after getting it off the oak chips. It's ready for fining after a bit more degassing...

I read an older book recently (Stanley F Anderson with Raymond Hull, "The Art of Making Wine" (c) 1968 ) and it had a lot to say about making sherries, ports and madieras, and one suggestion was to use a 23L wine kit, use a good strong yeast, sherry flor if you can get it or a yeast intended for port (which I have procured, Lalvin D47 as recommended by local place although by the yeast table I might do better with my old standby Lalvin 1118 ), and only dilute the concentrate to 4 gallons, aerate the hell out of it but rack it into a 23L carboy so it gets extra oxygen... that's the next experiment I have planned as I like sherry and port a lot because of the oxidation, but I did a tally today and I've got 22 gallons of various things that are ready to be bottled and I'm not allowed to start anything big until I actually bottle at least half of that...

(sorry about mixing units between litres and gallons but I don't honestly know how many litres my 3-gal carboy actually holds, no idea if it's US or Imp)

Dunno about experimenting? How about "accidental"?

A friend in Oaklahoma has now got a license to produce (other licensing in the process of being applied for etc). Anyway, it's one of his techniques that when it comes to back sweetening, he likes to use Chenin Blanc grape concentrate.

Now I've seen the adverts for the US, but most of those aren't available here, so after some nagging by him, I got myself a chenin blanc kit.

I eventually had to open it to use some of the concentrate, but was unsure about whether it was sulphited etc. I went out of my way to exclude air from the bag (which seemed to reseal nicely).

After about 3 weeks, I went to use a bit more of it and when I was pouring some into a jug, some strange papery looking threads came with it.

I panicked when I realised it was strings of some kind of mould. So I ran the whole 14 litres or so through a couple of different strainers. Sulphited it, put 4 litres in the fridge in 2 x 2 litre soda bottles, used some as I'd intended and then just thought "what the hell". Made it up to the strength as per the instructions and just chucked the yeast in dry.

After about 3 weeks, there was absolutely no sign of any movement, I checked it to see if there was any problems (I'd actually stirred it a couple of times to see if it just needed some air/oxygen - to no avail). There seemed to be no indication of fermentation as the further 2 times I checked it, the hydrometer just sat there.......

Out of the blue, on the 4th weekend, I was considering what to do with it when it started bubbling. It bubbled for a week then stopped. I put the hydrometer in and I'll be damned it had fermented dry. So I just racked it out into 2 different 1 gallon jugs to de-gas naturally and clear.

I now have 2 gallons of a very nice, palatable Chilean Chenin Blanc. Except meads, I've never been a white wine drinker - I've steadfastly stuck to my favourites i.e. heavy burgundies and bordeaux - always of the "claret style". Never finding any whites to "suit my taste".

So this "accident" is a new experience to me.......

regards

fatbloke

p.s. Oh and for your conversion thing, if the carboy is 3 US gallons it's 11.34 litres, but if it's 3 imperial gallons then it's 13.65 litres (you should always deal in imperial gallons or litres if you can - you seem to get so much more than when dealing with US gallons )

 

[Medsen Fey]

Kits can make some tasty wines, but they are built to be foolproof which takes some of the fun out it for me. Every thing is already acid balanced and pH adjusted, and nutrient supplemented and all you have to do is pitch the yeast and rack at the appointed time. They usually come with EC-1118 so the fermentations complete reliably. I know you can do all kind of tweaks with adding tannins and changing oak, and using bio-lees and whatnot, but using a kit just takes away a lot of the magic for me.

However I cannot deny the quality of the wines as they are quite good. I've mostly made reds including a Spagnols Super Tuscan, and some WinExpert kits including and Amarone, the Dolcetto LE, the Petit Verdot LE, and I have the Brunello LE kit waiting to go. I also have a Mosti Meglioli Amarone aging (I'm heavy on the Italians).

The kits are all designed to produce 6 gallons, and what I'm doing to have some fun is racking them into a 5 gallon container and taking the excess 1/2 gallon (after the lees are left) and planning to make pyments. So I should have Petit Verdot Pyment and a Valpolicella Ripasso Pyment soon. That should be fun to try to balance. The Brunello Pyment will be next. I'm not quite sure what honey I want to use for these, but if anyone has suggestions I'm certainly open to ideas.

Medsen

 

[PitBull]

I agree with Medsen. Only two things can normally be a problem with kits, sanitation and sedimentation, and both are controllable. But the wines are indeed tasty. I'm currently making a Winexpert Mezza Luna Red (Premier Cuvée yeast was included) with an Amarone on-deck. These kits are generally more expensive than pressed juice from vineyards (plus your own added sugar).

Pressed juice from a vineyard is a bit more challenging. I had a very hardy wild yeast fermentation to deal with. But all turned out okay.

Medsen. If you come up with a great pyment recipe using wine from a kit, please post it for all to see.

 

[Chevette Girl]

Wine kits have their place. Like making all the wine for my wedding and knowing how long it would take and how well it would turn out...

Medsen,
I totally agree with the foolproof nature taking the fun out of them, I realized after my very first wine kit that I had learned sanitary procedure and that was it. Good start, but hardly fun. Also I was highly disappointed that my Raspberry Merlot had never seen a real raspberry which I suppose got me started into fruit wines in the first place. And that's an awesome pyment idea!

Fatbloke,
I would have to flip one of my 3 gal carboys upside down to see if it's got the litres stamped in but they're all full! I think what I ACTUALLY own are a bunch of 5 gal imp carboys and one 5 gal US carboy. I definitely prefer bigger gallons!

Pitbull,
Maybe one of these days I'll try pressed juice, but I suspect the extra cost will be beyond the detection of my tastebuds...

 

[Angelic Alchemist]

Never touched a wine kit. I just look at them sometimes at the LHBS. I may use concentrates as a cost-effective alternative should I need wine grapes for a recipe I dream up (some of my insane visions are posted in the patron's area) but I'm a broke graduate student at this point in my life, hence I try to harvest as many of my ingredients as I can rather than buying.

 

[akueck]

Maybe one of these days I'll try pressed juice, but I suspect the extra cost will be beyond the detection of my tastebuds...

The LHBS in Berkeley sells grapes for about $1-1.50/lb ($0.10/lb more if they press them for you) each year at harvest time. You have to buy in 100 lb increments (about 6 gallons of juice after all is said and done), so that's about 2-3 times more expensive than a kit. But still way cheaper than buying a few cases at the local winery. You might have luck getting the same deal at brew shops near you that do wine, or even just asking around at wineries. Worst they'll say is no.

 

[PitBull]

Pitbull,
Maybe one of these days I'll try pressed juice, but I suspect the extra cost will be beyond the detection of my tastebuds...

Pressed juice is relatively inexpensive. I paid $6.50/gallon at LHBS (in any quantity) for Niagara grape juice from the Erie, PA wine region. It required one pound of corn sugar/ gallon @ $1.50/lb. That’s only $8.00 per gallon (plus additives, corks, etc.) for some really great tasting wine. That’s about only $1.60/bottle. The least expensive kit wine is almost twice that. I'm sure there could be noted difference in pressed juice prices depending on the grape type and where you live. Maybe I’ll have to try a pyment this fall with local juices.

Of course I’ve been able to get honey for $26/gallon. If you use 3 pounds of honey/gallon for a traditional mead, that’s $6.50/gallon. Adding fruit for melomels can really jack up the price. So pressed juice is comparable to mead in price. So I make both types.

 

[Chevette Girl]

Pitbull and Akueck,
I'm a bit too far north to be near vinyards or wineries, I have to drive about three hours southwest to get to Prince Edward region and 6 hours to Niagara region. Most of the suppliers near me are 'brew your own wine from kits on our premises' places and have a lot of basic stuff and some very knowledgeable staff but nothing that extravagant in the way of supplies and equipment, the 1/2 hour drive today to the not-so-local resulted in grape tannins, dried elderberries, bottlecaps and a Sherry wine kit (today's impulse purchase), and I have completed my collection of what's available from Lalvin around here. And even they don't have pH test strips.

I pay about $6.20CDN for a kg of honey (compare to about $8 at farmer's markets), takes about one and a half kg to make the 3 lbs. for a gallon of mead, so $9.30/gal.

I just paid $60 CDN for the sherry kit that makes 3 gal US, $20/gal.

My standard wine kit is about $35 CDN for 6 gal US ($5.83/gal).

I only know one place that sells fresh-pressed grape juice (there are probably more, I just haven't looked) and since they're in the middle of Little Italy in Ottawa I'm sure they must bring it in from somewhere else, I will investigate the price but I'm pretty sure my $35 wine kits are my best deal for something quick, reliable and drinkable.

Or as a relatively inexpensive subject for experimentation!! <evil laugh> Mwahaahaahaahaa! </evil laugh>

And Angelic, I understand completely, the main reason I got into winemaking in the first place was to make use of things I can pick myself, there's only so much jam and jelly I can eat/give away and the apples, pears and currants just keep coming!!

 

[fatbloke]

Pitbull and Akueck,
I'm a bit too far north to be near vinyards or wineries, I have to drive about three hours southwest to get to Prince Edward region and 6 hours to Niagara region. Most of the suppliers near me are 'brew your own wine from kits on our premises' places and have a lot of basic stuff and some very knowledgeable staff but nothing that extravagant in the way of supplies and equipment, the 1/2 hour drive today to the not-so-local resulted in grape tannins, dried elderberries, bottlecaps and a Sherry wine kit (today's impulse purchase), and I have completed my collection of what's available from Lalvin around here. And even they don't have pH test strips.

I pay about $6.20CDN for a kg of honey (compare to about $8 at farmer's markets), takes about one and a half kg to make the 3 lbs. for a gallon of mead, so $9.30/gal.

I just paid $60 CDN for the sherry kit that makes 3 gal US, $20/gal.

My standard wine kit is about $35 CDN for 6 gal US ($5.83/gal).

I only know one place that sells fresh-pressed grape juice (there are probably more, I just haven't looked) and since they're in the middle of Little Italy in Ottawa I'm sure they must bring it in from somewhere else, I will investigate the price but I'm pretty sure my $35 wine kits are my best deal for something quick, reliable and drinkable.

Or as a relatively inexpensive subject for experimentation!! <evil laugh> Mwahaahaahaahaa! </evil laugh>

And Angelic, I understand completely, the main reason I got into winemaking in the first place was to make use of things I can pick myself, there's only so much jam and jelly I can eat/give away and the apples, pears and currants just keep coming!!

funny you mention prices, especially honey.

today, I went to the local apiarist/honey supplies, mainly for a couple of lb extra to feed the 3 latest batches I started and backsweetening.

he has honey from about £2.50 per lb. I got the ones for feed/backsweetening for about £2.80, then looked at the others (baring in mind he doesn't keep a huge range), he had one I'd not come across, called Rawarena (New Zealand honeysuckle). Quite dark, sort of a reddish brown in colour (not opened one yet to check aroma/flavour). The darkest one he had was a very dark "Greek" honey - but did point out last years crappy harvest in many European regions (I bought the last 3lb bucket of Italian Chestnut he had - apparently that's the lot for a while - shit harvests, weather, exchange rate, etc). The Greek one would be a bit cheaper in 3 or 7lb buckets.

His New Zealand Manuka starts at £12.50 per lb for +10 manuka effect, then £17 for the +15 and the +20 is about £22.50

All these prices are relevant of course.

No one here, seems to do grapes/juice, unless you arrange a private import from somewhere or just buy the juice/concentrate as a kit. Why I don't know. Of course, there's generic WGC and RGC in the HBS but it's certainly not grape specific. You just have to buy the kit for that.......

Bugger, bugger, bugger!

 

[Angelic Alchemist]

And Angelic, I understand completely, the main reason I got into winemaking in the first place was to make use of things I can pick myself, there's only so much jam and jelly I can eat/give away and the apples, pears and currants just keep coming!!

Yes! I have a freezer packed with loquats, blackberries and mulberries I've picked in the last week. Houston is dripping with fruit right now, and the honey should be ready in a month or two. My carboys look so sad sitting there all empty right now...but not for long!

I really should learn how to make preserves. We got into making mead/wine because a friend has wild grapes growing in his backyard, plus a meyer lemon tree. Another friend, Kerry the bee guy, loves beekeeping but hates sales. I sell all the honey I can at my shop and we ferment the rest.

Since I don't drink, it would be nice to make something I could actually consume...my friends think I'm just about the coolest chick ever for making yummy booze that I feed to them regularly. But, Preserves. Yes...

Anyhoo, kits initially seemed a little silly to me but I can understand why some wine makers like them. They are convenient and less expensive than buying finished wine by the case...if you're into cultivated grapes. I just like picking fruit. It gets me in touch with my primal roots.