Priming with honey...

[Golddiggie]

My concern is that, I was told, the mini-kegs (5L) wouldn't handle the carbonation if I did it as one large dose (into the carboy before bottling). You need to dose those as if you were putting in 1 gallon (3.79L) not the actual 5L that they hold... Since they'll hold 1.32 gallons, that means I'll have about 2.36 gallons remaining... Which, if I'm figuring this out correctly, means I should dose the remaining volume with 2.83oz of sugar to get a 'normal' level of carbonation for what remains... I'll be using CO2 to push the brew out of the mini-kegs, if that matters at all for this (probably doesn't)... The instructions with the tap head were rather sparse, without any mention of how to dose the beer for carbonation. I think it's really targeted towards people getting mini-kegs from micro-breweries...

I'll probably end up putting the brew into another vessel (either my 6 gal carboy, or one of the brew buckets) before bottling, so that I can leave any extra sediments behind in the secondary carboy...

I'm itching to give the batch another hydrometer reading, but I'm holding off until a week has passed since I added the extra honey... I also want to see how the flavor is developing... Not that I'm probably going to do anything more to this batch. Since I've deviated a bit from what it was supposed to have in it already... Don't want to go too far off script this early in the game... ;D

 

[Golddiggie]

If any members within a reasonable travel time to Natick, MA would care to try my first brews, I'll be bottling the red ale by end of day on Saturday. I expect to be bottling the honey porter either Sunday or on Monday (12/6)... They should be fully carbonated within 14 days from the bottle dates... So by the weekend of the 18th they both should be ready to partake of...

I would appreciate additional input on both brews... I'll be taking non-carbonated samples to the LHBS for their opinion, tomorrow... The ale is really smooth, which I want to make sure I maintain that feel... I'll probably carbonate a little lighter, so that there's no acidic taste to it...

 

[YogiBearMead726]

What's the flavour difference? Also, are you comparing it to western or eastern buckwheat? I haven't had eastern but apparently it's far different than western.

So, I got a chance to taste some of the avocado honey I have. It's actually similar in some ways to eucalyptus, but without that medicinal flavor. Pungent floral flavor/aroma that is unique (at least in my somewhat limited honey experience). I'll say this again with more certainty now, it's flavor is very different from buckwheat (again, probably western).

 

[Golddiggie]

So back on target...

I'm bottling both my brews tomorrow... I took samples to the LHBS and have confirmation that both are ready... Now, I don't want to carbonate to the point where you get any acidic flavors/tints to the brews... So, how much should I plan to prime these (per gallon sugar amount would be fine, or total for the 5 gallon batch)??? Since the mini-kegs need a little less priming than if they were glass bottles of the same volume, basically treating them as 1 gallon vessels, I was thinking of using 1oz to 1-1/4oz of honey for each of those (at least with the porter)... Then figuring about 1-1/8oz per gallon of the remaining porter... I might go the normal amount to equal 1oz/gallon (when using sugar), which would come out to 1.20oz/gallon... Although, I'm still thinking of going a hair light to 1.125oz/gallon there too...

I did a little searching online and I'm getting very different information there... One site has people saying to use 12g of sugar to prime for the mini-kegs. While another site has a recommendation (looks like it could be from the manufacturer) of 1.5TBS for the mini-kegs (each)... That's a whole lot more than 12g... I actually just measured it out, and it's 22g... So which are people using (if they use these 5L mini-kegs for brews)???

 

[wildoates]

Can you bottle condition mead by gravity? If it starts out dry and you bring it up to X SG? Or for a braggot (that given the malt is not dry) to raise it a specific amount per atmosphere?

 

[Medsen Fey]

I did a little searching online and I'm getting very different information there... One site has people saying to use 12g of sugar to prime for the mini-kegs. While another site has a recommendation (looks like it could be from the manufacturer) of 1.5TBS for the mini-kegs (each)... That's a whole lot more than 12g... I actually just measured it out, and it's 22g... So which are people using (if they use these 5L mini-kegs for brews)???

The key number to remember for priming is 4 g/L sugar which equals 1 volume of CO2. Most beers are 2-3 volumes of CO2. So figure out how many liters, and what level of CO2 and that will tell you how many grams of sugar. If you are using honey, use 25% more weight.

And Jen, you can use a hydrometer (it helps if it is fine scale). 1 volume of CO2 should be about 1.5 gravity points.

 

[Golddiggie]

The key number to remember for priming is 4 g/L sugar which equals 1 volume of CO2. Most beers are 2-3 volumes of CO2. So figure out how many liters, and what level of CO2 and that will tell you how many grams of sugar. If you are using honey, use 25% more weight.

Good info Medsen, but I was told that the 5L mini-kegs either might not, or shouldn't be primed the same as regular bottles... That's what I'm trying to discover here... I also thought it was 20% of honey is water, so you add 20% to the priming sugar amount to reach the same level...

running the numbers as you outlined the parameters... If I go for a CO2 volume of 2, since these are 5L capacity (hope we're not talking about actual amount filled, but total listed capacity here) then that would mean 40g of sugar... So I either measure by grams (thinking I just might) or I have to convert to ounces (US)... So if I go with grams of honey, that would be either 48g or 50g (not seeing a large difference between those two amounts here) of honey to reach the same level as 40g of sugar...

Now here comes the more abstract part... To have less carbonic acid in the porter, and probably the ale to develop a more standard procedure here) would I stay with 2 volumes of CO2, or should I go less than that? Is going less than 2 advisable for my target, or will there not be enough carbonation to make the brews pleasant to drink? This is where those with experience messing with things come into their own... I really like how smooth both brews are right now, before carbonation. I want to retain that in the finished/bottled product... I just need help/advice on getting there.

Appreciate the help Medsen, just hope that you also know how to help me get where I want to be...

 

[wildoates]

And Jen, you can use a hydrometer (it helps if it is fine scale). 1 volume of CO2 should be about 1.5 gravity points.

Another toy I absolutely must buy for myself.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Golddiggie]

Alright, after digging some, and finding the link to this site: http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/brew/widgets/bp.html I ran the numbers...

Honey Porter prime to CO2 volume of 1.75 (lists a porter as 1.7-2.5)
5L mini-kegs: .75oz honey each
Balance (figure with loss from sampling about 9L remains): 1.25oz

Red Ale Prime to 2.5 (lists the closest as 2.2-2.8)
5L mini-kegs: 1.375oz honey each
Balance (also figuring about 9L remains): 2.5oz honey

These first brews, I hope, will tell me if I'm on target or not... Unless someone has bottled these types before, and also wanted the same feel as I do (with not high carbonation) in the end product, and steps in with new information. I'll plan on using these volumes to get the brews primed and bottled tomorrow/Saturday...

Since I'm already looking to start another dark brew (a monster of one too >) It will be good to know how the numbers work out... I just wish the site also listed honey for an option, to take the guess work out of it... Oh well...

BTW, any preferred/trusted make/model of fine scale hydrometers?? I'm thinking that I might do well with one too... There are times when I wish mine had finer gradations to it... Although I might not be able to use it in the high gravity musts I'm already leaning towards... Or at least not until later in the fermentation...

 

[Medsen Fey]

... I also thought it was 20% of honey is water, so you add 20% to the priming sugar amount to reach the same level...

The sugar amount will be 20% less than any given weight of honey.
Going the other way, from .8 up to 1 requires a 25% increase, so 50g (25% more than 40) of honey would be correct to get 40g of sugar assuming the moisture content is 20%.

There are times when I wish mine had finer gradations to it... Although I might not be able to use it in the high gravity musts I'm already leaning towards... Or at least not until later in the fermentation...

They make them in several different scale ranges including 1.060-1.130.

 

[AToE]

The sugar amount will be 20% less than any given weight of honey.
Going the other way, from .8 up to 1 requires a 25% increase, so 50g (25% more than 40) of honey would be correct to get 40g of sugar assuming the moisture content is 20%.

I have trouble with this with the people I work with all the time, % messes with a lot of people's brains (some of them keep trying to divide a number by say 1.11 to remove 11% for example, for some weird reason!).

 

[Golddiggie]

As soon as I read Medsen's post the light went on... I did multiply by 1.25 to get my final numbers (last night)...

So, the only question remaining is if the CO2 volume targets I'm going for are going to be good (in your guys opinions)... I want to retain the smoothness of both brews, hence not going to the max carbonation... With a CO2 volume of 1.75 for the porter, I hope to keep that nice and smooth... Should I go with 2.2 or 2.5 for the ale (range is 2.2-2.80)? It's a small difference for the 5L mini-kegs, but for the balance it's .5oz difference... I know, it might not seem like a lot on paper, but it's an increase of 25% from 2.2 to 2.5 (honey amount)... Should end up using no more than 1/2# of honey either way (for both batches)...

 

[Golddiggie]

Just finished bottling the porter so that's both brews in bottles, tucked in for their 2 week nap... Only 'issue' is on the ale, I had one bottle that wasn't full, same on the porter (more than half full though)... To CMA (cover my ass) I've put the bottles into their box (with dividers) and the entire thing into trash bags, covered with towels. I'll do my damnedest to make sure they stay right around 65F and have no sunlight hitting them. Not sure if I'll use the 5L mini-kegs for the next brew... Well, I won't for what I'm starting next weekend, but maybe the following one I'll get one 5L keg... Unless I have one of these free by then (or more of them free)... ;D

Itching to see how they are once carbonation is complete...

 

[akueck]

1.7 volumes is plenty if you're going for light carbonation. I've gone down to about 1.3 volumes for some beers to try and mimic the "cask carbonation" level of traditional English pub beers. 2.2-2.5 volumes is more typical of your standard pale ale or lager, and very highly carbonated beers come in around 3 (Berliner weisse for example).

 

[Golddiggie]

1.7 volumes is plenty if you're going for light carbonation. I've gone down to about 1.3 volumes for some beers to try and mimic the "cask carbonation" level of traditional English pub beers. 2.2-2.5 volumes is more typical of your standard pale ale or lager, and very highly carbonated beers come in around 3 (Berliner weisse for example).

Really good to hear/know now... I'm thinking that I might go the 1.3-1.5 route for the IBS that I'll be starting next weekend... Granted, I could be bottling that come spring time...