Wines I have "on the go" (Correct use of nutrients ??)/

[fatbloke]

Yes, I make mainly mead, but at this time of year, I'm happy to make batches of wine as well - currently got 2 gallons of "Make it up as you go along Summer Fruit" wine (actually it's become melomel as I used honey to up the gravity instead of sugar - It contains the juice of 2lb of raspberries, 6lb of discovery apples and 2 lb of elderberries), then there's 1 gallon of elderberry, 2 gallons of Kiwi fruit/Chinese Gooseberry wine and 1 gallon of Broken Mandarin segments wine (from canned broken mandarin segments)

Also it was due to seeing so many mentions about Fermaid-k and Go-Ferm here at gotmead, that have prompted me to ask the next bit.

Now as it's "rocking horse sh1t" this side of the Atlantic, I had to get some from Nashwood Winery. They put a sticker on it with basic guidance on how much too use, but that's about it.

So, the Fermaid-K seems to be 1.1 grammes per gallon, but the sticker says it's added after the fermentation has begun. What's wrong with adding it when the must is cooling/being mixed, like I would if I was using one of the nutrients (such as Tronozymol) that's available in the UK/Europe ?

Then there's the Go-ferm stuff, it says 1.1 grammes in 15ml. The yeasts (lalvin ones) say that I'd normally use 2oz/50ml's of water and leave it no longer than 15 minutes (or is it 30, I don't have a pack to hand to check).

So given that 1.1 grammes is enough for a pack of yeast, 15ml's of what? must or water? is it then added to the water that's suggested on the yeast pack ? How long can this be left for ?

does anyone have any guidance on this (and is it the same for mead as well as fruit wine)?

TVM

regards

fatbloke

 

[wayneb]

Ahh - let me take a few shots at these questions of yours, although I have to admit that the image of broken Mandarin bits floating in a carboy (and I'm not talking about the oranges here!) is a difficult one to think straight through! :laughing7:

Must be all those images of the Olympics that have put me in this frame of mind....

Anyway, back to the matter at hand. Fermaid-K is best added after the yeast's lag phase (after the start of fermentation) because then the yeast cells are acclimated enough to the must that an addition of the nutrients won't hit them all at once. Too much of a good thing can be toxic to your yeast. Additionally, once the yeast have a firm foothold in the must, they are likely the organisms to get to those nutrients first. Immediately after pitch but before any evidence that fermentation has begun, there may be spoilage organisms competing with the yeast for dominance in the brew, and you'd just as soon not give them a nutrient boost. I am sure that the suppliers of Tronozymol might re-think their addition strategy if they understood the rationale behind Lallemand's recommendation.

Go-Ferm is used without any other adjunct in the rehydration water (plain water out of the tap is best) that wakes up an active dry yeast. Lallemand recommend that 1.25 gm of Go-Ferm be used per gm of active dry yeast, and I don't remember if 15 ml was the proper amount of water to be used per gm of yeast, but that sounds approximately correct. To be honest, I usually use 20 ml of water per gm of yeast because the Lallemand recommended amount seems to make a slurry that is too thick to pour easily. I don't know how the 1.1 gm number made it to your packet of Go-Ferm, unless some repackager somehow seems to think that you can get by with less. I'd stick to the 1.25 gm of Go-Ferm per gm of yeast. Go-Ferm does not provide "fuel" for yeast metabolism, only micronutrients that the yeast need as they re-hydrate. Thus, you should still pitch yeast into a fermentable must sometime between 15 and 30 minutes past the point that you add the yeast to your water/Go-Ferm mixture.

The rehydration of yeast is identical in process for fruit wines as it is for mead. For nourishing your mead yeast, however, I'd recommend that an additional source of nitrogen be added, as Fermaid-K and other yeast nutrient formulations are usually blended to be best in grape must, which naturally contains more yeast assimilable nitrogen than does honey must. I typically add some DAP in addition to the Fermaid, at a ratio of about 3 parts of additional DAP to 7 parts of Fermaid. So, determine how much Fermaid to add based on 1.1 gm per gallon, and then add an additional 3/7 * the Fermaid amount, of DAP, and you should be good to go.

I think that just about covers everything. If you have more questions, don't hesitate to post them!

 

[Medsen Fey]

I believe the official recommendation for rehydration with GoFerm is 20cc H2O for each gram of GoFerm (per the scott labs fermentation handbook), and 1.25g GoFerm for each gram of yeast. If you use an 8g packet of yeast, you use 10g GoFerm and 200cc H2O.

I generally follow the instructions as outlined at MoreWine. I have found this process to work reliably.

With fruit wines, the fruits provide extra nitrogen and nutrients (as does grape must) which may allow you to do fine adding only Fermaid K. With meads that don't have fruits, the extra nitrogen from some DAP really helps.

On the subject of nutrients I saw on Scott Labs site a new product called Fermaid O. This is a higher nitrogen formula that contains amino nitrogen without DAP. They are trying to have it certified organic. I'll be interested to learn what the nitrogen content per gram is - anybody happen to know?

 

[wayneb]

Nope. Lallemand make it, and they haven't released the data sheet on it yet. Given the description of the material, I'm led to believe that it is similar in composition to the Maxaferm nutrient formulated by DSM (but I have no quantitative data to conclude that they are equivalent).

Correction - Maxaferm also contains some diammonium phosphate. So they are not the same. The Fermaid-O is something that I'd like to try sometime soon... once my stocks of Maxaferm and Fermaid-K are used up.