Hey everyone,
How long should I let 4.5 gallons of brew heat at 175 degrees to boil off all the alcohol?
-Shawn
How long should I let 4.5 gallons of brew heat at 175 degrees to boil off all the alcohol?
-Shawn
Alcohol Boil Off
- Thread starter ibwahooka
- Start date
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I'm sorry that I don't know the answer to your question but that's probably because I'm always trying to figure out how to get alcohol 'into' my mead.
Lol... g'luck Xixist
Lol... g'luck Xixist
Define "all". You'll be hard-pressed to get rid of identically 100% of the alcohol unless you get rid of all the water too.
I don't have an answer for you, but you could perhaps try and measure it. Things like the SG will change as the alcohol:water ratio goes down. You could try heating it until you notice the SG stop changing, or maybe make a cute little plot of the SG vs time and extrapolate an effective time for "total" removal.
Also you might try looking up an alcohol-water phase diagram. It won't tell you how long, but it will tell you at what temperature would be a good spot to sit to let the alcohol go away.
Hehe, Wikipedia has a diagram labeled VERY INACCURATE. I'll keep looking because now I am curious.
Anyone speak Japanese?
Aha! This one has some phase diagrams. I can't vouch for their accuracy, but hey the internet is always correct right?
Disclaimer: this pdf discusses distillation in the context of fuel manufacture. Distillation of alcohol for consumption is illegal in the US unless you have the proper license(s).
Ok so if we take those diagrams to be correct, and we assume you have a 15% ethanol 85% water solution (let's ignore the other components for now), it tells us this:
You'll start boiling at a roughly 90.5ºC (195 F). Just above this, you'll have--in equilibrium--12.5% ABV liquid and 60% ABV vapor.
You need to reach 96 C (205 F) to get--in equilibrium--a 5% ABV liquid. However, about a third of your original volume will now be vapor.
Now, the million dollar question: what if I open the lid? What should happen is that boiling stops as the ABV of your liquid drops. You'll drive off all the alcohol when your boiling point hits 100 C. This of course is totally unhelpful to you since you want there to be liquid at the end.
Ok, total failure to answer the question. I'll go back to my original suggestion to measure the SG and see what happens. It should go up as the alcohol is removed. Any temperature below 195 F (for your assumed 15% ABV) would be below boiling, but obviously you'll still have vapor being given off and presumably never reach equilibrium. Thermodynamics of open systems was never my thing, sorry.
Oh, I should also mention that the phase diagram makes it very clear that you'll never get rid of all the alcohol. Once it is in there, it is there to stay. You can see from my quick calculations that it is even quite difficult to get rid of most of the alcohol by heating, unless you want to effectively distill it and throw out the concentrated alcohol solution and keep the water-concentrated fraction (I presume this would be legal).
I don't have an answer for you, but you could perhaps try and measure it. Things like the SG will change as the alcohol:water ratio goes down. You could try heating it until you notice the SG stop changing, or maybe make a cute little plot of the SG vs time and extrapolate an effective time for "total" removal.
Also you might try looking up an alcohol-water phase diagram. It won't tell you how long, but it will tell you at what temperature would be a good spot to sit to let the alcohol go away.
Hehe, Wikipedia has a diagram labeled VERY INACCURATE. I'll keep looking because now I am curious.
Anyone speak Japanese?
Aha! This one has some phase diagrams. I can't vouch for their accuracy, but hey the internet is always correct right?
Disclaimer: this pdf discusses distillation in the context of fuel manufacture. Distillation of alcohol for consumption is illegal in the US unless you have the proper license(s). Ok so if we take those diagrams to be correct, and we assume you have a 15% ethanol 85% water solution (let's ignore the other components for now), it tells us this:
You'll start boiling at a roughly 90.5ºC (195 F). Just above this, you'll have--in equilibrium--12.5% ABV liquid and 60% ABV vapor.
You need to reach 96 C (205 F) to get--in equilibrium--a 5% ABV liquid. However, about a third of your original volume will now be vapor.
Now, the million dollar question: what if I open the lid? What should happen is that boiling stops as the ABV of your liquid drops. You'll drive off all the alcohol when your boiling point hits 100 C. This of course is totally unhelpful to you since you want there to be liquid at the end.
Ok, total failure to answer the question. I'll go back to my original suggestion to measure the SG and see what happens. It should go up as the alcohol is removed. Any temperature below 195 F (for your assumed 15% ABV) would be below boiling, but obviously you'll still have vapor being given off and presumably never reach equilibrium. Thermodynamics of open systems was never my thing, sorry.
Oh, I should also mention that the phase diagram makes it very clear that you'll never get rid of all the alcohol. Once it is in there, it is there to stay. You can see from my quick calculations that it is even quite difficult to get rid of most of the alcohol by heating, unless you want to effectively distill it and throw out the concentrated alcohol solution and keep the water-concentrated fraction (I presume this would be legal).
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I don't think anyone is going to have a specific answer for you, timewise. With a temperature just barely above the boiling point of alcohol, but below the boiling point of water, it might be an idea to stir gently for about 15 minutes to half an hour. If you put your face above the heated brew you should be able to detect the alcohol rising off of the surface. Try stirring about ten minutes longer after you can't sense the alcohol anymore.
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Ok, I like that idea. Much simpler than mine. ;D Again, you won't get rid of all the alcohol, but you can probably get rid of enough of it to make a difference. Your nose is a pretty good chemical sensor.
If you can apply a (partial?) vacuum then you won't have to heat it as high, and will get less "cooking" of your mead. (No experience, just science)
Well I let it "boil" for about 45 minutes until the steam wasn't as strong of alcohol smelling as when I started. I know most people have not done this, but I was willing to try. I just thought maybe someone had played around with making any of their brews non-alcoholic. I'm trying this out so my wife can enjoy my homebrews while she is pregnant.
Thanks again everyone. I will let everyone know how it turned out/tastes.
Shawn
Thanks again everyone. I will let everyone know how it turned out/tastes.
Shawn
Where would you do this? I'm thinking 15% alcohol in 4 1/2 gallons gives about .7 gallons of alcohol vapor floating around trying to find an open flame....maybe try freezing it and save the ice?
boiling temps
i dont remember there being an (even*) number involved in that process.
seems like it was 178, or 172. not too sure. either way it is VERY dangerous to consume the "waste alcohol" from such a process. i have heard stories of ppl doing this without the proper testing equipment and ending up very very sick. just an fyi this is dangerous ground.
i dont remember there being an (even*) number involved in that process.
seems like it was 178, or 172. not too sure. either way it is VERY dangerous to consume the "waste alcohol" from such a process. i have heard stories of ppl doing this without the proper testing equipment and ending up very very sick. just an fyi this is dangerous ground.
I have calculated alcohol by spirit indication a few times and the rule of thumb for that process is to boil (or simmer it) until the volume has dropped by 50%. With that, vast majority of all the alcohol has been removed. However, what is left in the pot is dark, sometimes scorched, and nasty tasting (at least to me). If you are able to produce something tasty using a process like this, let us know and give us the recipe.
I'm thinking that JamesP's suggestion, to subject the liquid to a partial vacuum while heating, has the best chance of success where success is defined as removing the majority of the alcohol while leaving something drinkable behind. This could be difficult for a home experimenter to do safely, though, so proceed with much caution!
Shawn, do you have SG measurements for pre- and post-treatment? I'm curious to know how much it moved.
Al, I wouldn't be too worried about the alcohol vapor since he is starting with only 15% ABV. A significant portion of the vapor will be water so if the area is ventilated reasonably the concentration of ethanol in the air should be well below the limit for combustion. Still, turn that fume hood on to be safe!
Al, I wouldn't be too worried about the alcohol vapor since he is starting with only 15% ABV. A significant portion of the vapor will be water so if the area is ventilated reasonably the concentration of ethanol in the air should be well below the limit for combustion. Still, turn that fume hood on to be safe!
Well I had the window open last night and there was a very healthly breeze blowing through the kitchen when I was doing this.
*UPDATE!*
I think I did it! I'm going to post my full results over in the beer section since that was what I was making. I did it with some SC wildflower honey.
-Shawn
*UPDATE!*
I think I did it! I'm going to post my full results over in the beer section since that was what I was making. I did it with some SC wildflower honey.
-Shawn
This is like a surreal post. "How do I get the alcohol out of an alcoholic beverage?". If you didn't want alcohol, why did you dump yeast into it? Maybe there are extenuating circumstances of which I'm not aware. It still seems quite silly.
Despite whatever beer/wine snobbery BS you hear, we "brew" for one reason and one reason only! Alcohol content. Honey water and grape juice taste just fine without the addition of yeast and yet we still add yeast to the mix and wait for months and years for the final product. We wait for that yeast to finish turning the honey water or grape juice into an ALCOHOLIC beverage. Albeit, a beverage that is palatable enough to get the alcohol past our tongue with as little aversion as possible but we brew and drink BECAUSE of the alcohol.
My recommendation would be to donate the mead/wine to someone else that drinks alcohol and start yourself over with a clean slate.
Despite whatever beer/wine snobbery BS you hear, we "brew" for one reason and one reason only! Alcohol content. Honey water and grape juice taste just fine without the addition of yeast and yet we still add yeast to the mix and wait for months and years for the final product. We wait for that yeast to finish turning the honey water or grape juice into an ALCOHOLIC beverage. Albeit, a beverage that is palatable enough to get the alcohol past our tongue with as little aversion as possible but we brew and drink BECAUSE of the alcohol.
My recommendation would be to donate the mead/wine to someone else that drinks alcohol and start yourself over with a clean slate.
I'm guessing this was a little tongue in cheek, but I can think of plenty of reasons to de-alcoholize mead or beer or wine. Mead tastes nothing like honey water (mine don't anyways), nor does beer taste like sugary grain juice. I'd love to be able to de-alcoholize some of my mead so that I could share it with a recovered alcoholic I know but am currently unable to share my new passion with (unless I give him mead vinegar... which he'll never use knowing him).
my 2 cents.
No, it wasn't tongue in cheek at all. Scroll up through the posts and you'll read in one of the responses that Shawn is being the supportive husband, making non-alcoholic homebrew for his pregnant wife, who had enjoyed his good stuff beforehand.
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Thanks Dan.
Again the whole reason behind this is for my wife. She is 10 weeks pregnant and loves drinking my homebrews, she has to drink homebrew soda at the moment, and wants to enjoy the beer I make. Believe me I think it's terrible that I have to take away from the flavor of my beer/wine but I am trying to be a good husband.
-Shawn
I've done this once for a small volume. The way I did it was just to heat until all alcohol and water was out, and all that was left was the "essence" of the mead (or perhaps the meadpasta?). I then added water back into it. It tasted superb (though not at all like honey water, and not quite like the mead with alcohol in it either). I guess if there was a way to remove only the alcohol and still keep the original water intact that'd be even better. I don't think that would be possible through boiling alone though, and for me the readdition of water gave sufficiently good results for it to be a worthwhile method.
Oh no, I wasn't referring to Shawn's post being tongue in cheek - I was referring to the post I quoted! I totally understand where Shawn is coming from and was just arguing against what Jess said that brewing is essentially for the alcohol only.
Jess, you'll need to speak for yourself without making sweeping generalizations about the rest of the hombrew, meadmaking and winemaking communities. The only factor alcohol content plays in my decision making process is to determine which yeast strain will best suit the must that I'm making, and the residual sugar content at terminal gravity. I enjoy a good buzz as much as the next guy, but is in no way the only reason or main reason I brew.
Please take a moment to reflect on how insensitive your post was and how foolish you look to this community for capping on someone who is asking legitimate questions in order to produce a safe beverage for his pregnant wife. This type of posting style is not Welcome nor encouraged here on Got Mead? and if you continue in this direction you will be moderated. Continue past that and you may end up losing your account on GotMead.Com.
Oskaar
