Everyones take on Sorbates?

[jpog]

I was just curious about everyones take on Sorbates and if they use them or some other preservative.

I don't really want to use them because I want to make an all natural mead and my understanding is that Honey (being an natural antibiotic) and alcohol being a germ killer..that mead should be able to keep quite nicely without it.

 

[Chevette Girl]

I don't use stabilizers as a preservative. I use it to prevent bottle bombs. If you carboy age anything with residual sugar for at least a year or two before bottling it you should be safe from bottle bombs.

That said, most of the reason honey doesn't spoil is the sugar content, and you've just fermented all that away. But alcohol is a preservative, and the higher the alcohol concentration, the better the preservative.

Most of the time wine, doesn't catch an infection so much as oxidizes, and I believe the stabilizers also help combat that as well, but traditional meads don't seem anywhere near as prone to oxidation as wines are.

Bottom line, it's up to you.

 

[HunnyBunz]

Potassium sulfate and potassium sorbate are commonly used in conjunction with one another to stop a fermentation and/or keep the yeast from re-starting. This is usually either to 1) have a mead finish at a predetermined gravity so that some sugars remain, or 2) to prevent the yeast from kicking up again after bottling.

Some people (myself included) prefer not to use them either because of wanting to go as natural as possible or because of sulfite allergies. In those cases bulk aging for several months in a carboy with an airlock usually ensures that the yeast will be completely finished when it's time to bottle.

Perhaps someone else has a comment on the preservative uses.

 

[fatbloke]

Well I stabilise as standard. For either residual sugars, or so I can back sweeten if needed.

Either way, it keeps the brew to the standard/level I've got it too and prevents the bottle bombs.........

 

[skunkboy]

I've used them (potassium sorbate, and campden tablets) I think like three times in over 200 hundred batches. I tend to age stuff in a carboy for about a year before bottling. Only bottle bombs were from bottling after 5 months when I first started, and those were just popped corks. I haven't really had any issues, but if I wanted to backsweeten any mead and not restart fermentation I would probably use them.

 

[Sadie Lady]

In the past I've had several carbonated batches, just popped corks and no broken glass. They were < 1.000 when I racked them, but bottled around 6 months. So now I'm using both campden and potassium sorbate.

 

[TAKeyser]

I now always use them to prevent bottle bombs. Had a batch aging in carboys for about 18 months (finished gravity sat at 1.005 for the whole time), 6 months after bottling 4 of the 15 bottles popped their corks. Since then everything is stabilized.

 

[Guinlilly]

It's really just a pet peeve, but I really hate when people say they don't want to use sulfites/sorbates because they want an 'all natural mead'. Guess what - sulfites and sorbates ARE all natural. They are found in and are naturally occurring in nature, thus making them 'all natural'.

That said, we use both sulfite and sorbate in our meads to stabilize at all times. We generally bottle at 8-12 months so it is necessary. Sulfites have been added to wine since before Christ and the majority of so called sulfite allergies/sensitivities are untrue. Generally, there are more sulfites on dried fruit than in your average bottle of wine.

 

[wayneb]

Not to mention that sulphites are a naturally occurring yeast byproduct of fermentation, so whether you add any or not, your finished wine/mead/beer will have some amount of SO2, just from the fermentation process.

Sorbate, while not a byproduct of fermentation, is the solid form of a naturally occurring acid, sorbic acid, which is not in any way harmful in the amounts usually used to stabilize meads and wines.

You might want to re-read the NewBee guide to meadmaking, which talks a bit about when stabilization makes sense.

 

[TAKeyser]

It's really just a pet peeve, but I really hate when people say they don't want to use sulfites/sorbates because they want an 'all natural mead'. Guess what - sulfites and sorbates ARE all natural. They are found in and are naturally occurring in nature, thus making them 'all natural'.

I was going to mention that, but it usually leads to an argument

 

[tweak'e]

if you do not want to use sulphites or sorbate then use sterile filtration (to remove the yeast) or pasteurize it.
i do not have the gear for either so i sorbate all my meads.

 

[mfalenski]

We also use both sulfite and sorbate in our products. We keep the levels low, but still add both. I feel it helps keep the flavor longer, and I believe that IanB also said the same thing in one of his posts. We filter at .45 micron at bottling, and to date we have not had any issues.

 

[!Wine]

It's really just a pet peeve, but I really hate when people say they don't want to use sulfites/sorbates because they want an 'all natural mead'. Guess what - sulfites and sorbates ARE all natural. They are found in and are naturally occurring in nature, thus making them 'all natural'.

That said, we use both sulfite and sorbate in our meads to stabilize at all times. We generally bottle at 8-12 months so it is necessary. Sulfites have been added to wine since before Christ and the majority of so called sulfite allergies/sensitivities are untrue. Generally, there are more sulfites on dried fruit than in your average bottle of wine.

Interesting.
Personally I won't use them because I can taste a gnat fart in a high wind from 10 miles... if my mouth is open. Sometimes it really sucks to have such a sensitive palate. On the other hand.... it sure is handy when drinking a complex and delicious wine.

I also can get reeling/puking, make an ass out of myself, drunk and be perfectly fine the next day. (at 10,000ft above sea level... that's saying something LOL)

Never been able to even have a good buzz on with commercial wine, without tasting sulfites... and without a hangover the next day.

Guess if my stuff ever hangs around long enough... I'll bottle it at about 2 years, eh?

Happy Fermenting!

 

[jpog]

Thanks !Wine.

I have noticed the same thing..wines and other beverages with sulfites and/or sorbates give me terrible hangovers.

Both do have documented/proven allergies too. FYI: Sulfites are counted among the top nine food allergens!! Which is why they are banned from veggi use now and have to be listed on products.

I do understand though that, they have there purposes.

Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[Chevette Girl]

I have noticed the same thing..wines and other beverages with sulfites and/or sorbates give me terrible hangovers.

It's funny but I notice the exact opposite, if I'm likely to get a terrible hangover (sometimes without even overindulging) it's going to be something non-sulphited... and I know I'm not allergic to sulphites because I downed a glug of my sulphite sanitizing solution once during a siphoning mishap... inhaling over a freshly mixed batch of solution does make me wheeze (not surprising, lots of things make me wheeze) but that's the extent of my sensitivity to it.

Sulphites and sorbate have their place, and even though I get worse hangovers without, I still don't bother stabilizing unless I feel I have to for safety reasons. This attitude may change after I do some side-by-side comparisons, stabilizing half of a batch and not the other half and seeing how they age relative to each other. We'll see.

 

[TAKeyser]

Never been able to even have a good buzz on with commercial wine, without tasting sulfites... and without a hangover the next day.

Every wine and mead, commercial or home made has sulfites. They may not have sulfites ADDED, but they have sulfites and they are produced by the yeast during fermentation.

 

[!Wine]

Every wine and mead, commercial or home made has sulfites. They may not have sulfites ADDED, but they have sulfites and they are produced by the yeast during fermentation.

The point is that natural levels of sulfites are waaaaay below my detection level.... everything tastes good. Not so the commercial stuff.

As for the hangover? Not sure if that's the sulfites in the commercial wine or not... just know it happens with commercial wine. Even if it's just a 'bad' feeling the next day, it's enough to throw my day off.

People have a hard time understanding just how sensitive my palate and other senses are. Heh

Now... truth be told (as I always make it a point to do) I've never added sulfites to my wines/meads. *shrug* So on that point, I have nothing to compare.

Happy Fermenting!

 

[TAKeyser]

I'll believe you, but to me a 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons of mead/wine just doesn't seem too significant to me where it would be detectable but everyones palate is different.

I'm with Chevette Girl, non-stabilized meads make me feel worse, especially if it contains a lot of sediment that gets swirled up. Bottle conditioned beer doesn't make me feel like crap though even though there's sediment present. Who knows

 

[jpog]

1/4 of a tsp is a small amount..I am betting the the commercial wines, use a bit higher dose then that.

I guess we all have our different tolerences which makes it interesting and adds to the Hive Collective as someone else once said on here.

 

[TAKeyser]

If sulfites do not bother you or if you are on the ledge about using them 2 reasons to consider adding them are 1) they help prevent oxidation, which means your meads will have a longer shelf life and 2) sulfites bond to aldehydes (created during fermentation and smell bad) rendering them aroma-less (is that really a word?)