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First batch, first post. All input welcome!

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Bleedmead

Worker Bee
Registered Member
Oct 11, 2018
65
0
6
Upstate New York
Hey everyone! This is an insanely long post so I'm going to start with my questions, then go into the reasons I'm asking and backstory.
1.) What's the best practice for managing gross and fine lees?
2.) What can I do, if anything, with the gross lees after I rack?
3.) Considering I'm using k1 yeast but want sweet mead, should I just add enough honey to hit maybe 13% ABV and use k-meta and k-sorbate to stabilize?
4.) When is the recommended time for backsweetening, just before bottling so I can dose enough for the most sure stabilization during bulk aging, or should I backsweeten before bulk aging?
5.) Is it better to backsweeten with the honey I fermented, or will backsweetening with a different honey provide a better flavor profile?
6.) Is it all preference?
7.) If so, can I backsweeten individual bottles for taste or is that how bottle bombs are made?

First, if I may, I'm new to brewing and the forum. I've read and learned a lot from you all and I'm excited to join an experienced, knowledgeable and welcoming community. Thank you!
I'm hoping to receive constructive criticism, tips, suggestions-any input you guys are willing to share. I've never brewed anything so I have a lot to learn. My first batch is a 6 gal traditional sweet. I'm going against previously mentioned suggestions of starting small and working up because 1.) I'm confident that with enough research and care I'll be able to produce something that is at least drinkable (and hopefully not vinegar lol), and 2.) I got excited and found what I perceived to be a great deal on a new kit. Although impatient with my purchasing of equipment, I will practice patience with my mead making, or at least try. I'm using:
- k1-v1116 (10g)
- Go-Ferm (quantity tbd) I'll use meadmakr
- Fermaid-O (quantity tbd) I'll use meadmakr
- Raw Florida orange blossom honey (quantity tbd) I'll use the mead calculator
(I saw someone on here say CA is better than FL, but of course I saw it after my purchase lol. Food for thought.)
- Water from my well to fill (this is not yet set in stone. I know my well water is potable and hard, and I've read that hard water makes good mead-with proper care of course-but I want to know what else is in the water before I decide.)
- I also have k-meta and k-sorbate (for yeast reproduction inhibition and fermentation inhibition, respectively, correct?)
I'll be following TOSNA 2.0 for rehydration and nutrient additions, and sur lie for fine lees aging? (I don't yet have the best understanding of this practice, or managing gross/fine lees in general. I believe I should be aerating 3 times daily during fermentation, and when fermentation ends I rack from my bucket to my carboy to separate gross lees from mead and fine lees, then stir my mead once daily until 30 days from pitch to keep the fine lees in suspension. Please correct me where I am wrong. I appreciate your honest input). Forgive my ignorance, but what do I do with the gross lees at that point? Can they be used for anything? Do you guys just flush them or something? The reason I'm choosing k1 yeast is because of the temp range (I live in the northeast and with winter temps here already my ferment very well could be in the mid to high 50's from time to time. Also, I won't have the best temp control. I'm confident I can maintain between 54 and 68 though). K1's alcohol tolerance is 18% but I want a sweet mead. I recently read squatchy say trads above 14% have alcohol overpower the honey taste. Should I just add enough honey to hit maybe 13% ABV and use k-meta and k-sorbate to stabilize? Which leads me to backsweetening. When is the recommended time for this, just before bottling so I can dose enough for the most sure stabilization during bulk aging, or should I backsweeten before bulk aging? Is it better to backsweeten with more of the honey I fermented, or will backsweetening with a different honey provide a better flavor profile? Is it all preference? If so, can I backsweeten individual bottles for taste or is that how bottle bombs are made?
Sorry for the encyclopedia of questions and back story and thank you for your time.
 
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Hi Bleedmead and welcome to the madness that is mead making. You'll soon find that it is quite adictive and that this hobby can spiral out of control realy quickly.

You've obviously done quite some research already and a lot of your process is as it should be, imo. You can however always tweak here and there. I have my own meadery in Belgium and I still learn every day.
Now. To answer your questions. You have without a doubt already noticed that there is no one clear answer to a lot of questions and the theory and practices of mead making are in a constant state of evolution. In Dutch we call it "voortschrijdend inzicht". I think that translates as progressing insights.

Bleedmead said:
Hey everyone! This is an insanely long post so I'm going to start with my questions, then go into the reasons I'm asking and backstory.
1.) What's the best practice for managing gross and fine lees?
2.) What can I do, if anything, with the gross lees after I rack?
3.) Considering I'm using k1 yeast but want sweet mead, should I just add enough honey to hit maybe 13% ABV and use k-meta and k-sorbate to stabilize?
4.) When is the recommended time for backsweetening, just before bottling so I can dose enough for the most sure stabilization during bulk aging, or should I backsweeten before bulk aging?
5.) Is it better to backsweeten with the honey I fermented, or will backsweetening with a different honey provide a better flavor profile?
6.) Is it all preference?
7.) If so, can I backsweeten individual bottles for taste or is that how bottle bombs are made?
Click to expand...



  1. When my active fermentation is over but the mead is still very cloudy I wait for a layer of sediment to form on the bottom of the vessel. Then I rack to secondary. The yeast still in suspension will eventually settle down and form a layer of fine lees. A technique explained in quite some detail in the Modern Mead Making series of the GotMead Live podcasts (Sep-Nov 2017) by Squatchy is rousing the lees. By keeping them in suspension for about a month they wil percipitate way fastzer and cleaner than when you wouldn't do this.
    You can age on the (fine) lees after precipitation. I can tell you wether that's a good idea wit K1V since I have never used that yeast to date. Some of the heavyweights will without a doubt be able to tell you.
  2. I always toss them. I have heard that Apothecary Mead in the UK donates the lees to a bakery to make a speciality bread with, but I assume that those are the fine lees.
  3. I'd calculate the honey needed to reach your desired abv and then backsweeten. 13% is not that extraordinary. Many beginning mead makers strive to hit a high abv (been there, done that, t-shirt). This may stress the yeast, causing off flavors which may take forever to age out. Almost all of my meads have an abv of 12%.
  4. I always backsweeten after stabilisation, during bulk aging. There are other schools of thought, I'm sure, but that's what works for me. Also: check your SG regularly after backsweetning. Better safe than sorry.
  5. That is totally up to you. I've done both. Especially with really expensive honeys I'd ferment 50/50 wildflower/varietal and backsweeten with the varietal.
  6. Yes. You do what you like. There's no point in making something that you wouldn't drink yourself.
  7. Personally I'd never do that, but if you stabilized well and your SG has been stable for several weeks/months you could take that route/risk. I'd rather split the batch and backsweeten one more than the other.
 
Welcome Bleedmead. Don't get frustrated if your next post or two take time to hit the forums. I think that's a spam-prevention setting and it happens a lot to new members.

I'll echo what saur0n said. Listen to those podcasts for a TON of info and advice. It was very helpful to me. Take lots of notes while you make the mead (what you're doing, how much you're adding, when you're adding it, etc).

I always pour out the gross lees after fermentation. I've heard you can re-use them to make another batch of mead, but I think by that point they are old and tired and it might cause issues in the fermentation. Yeast is cheap compared to honey and other ingredients so I think it's best to start with a fresh packet for each batch.

I always stabilize when I rack the first time, then backsweeten a day or two later. That gives the honey plenty of time to dissolve before I worry about it clearing or before I try to bottle. And it lets me make sure that the mead is stabilized before bottling.

Good luck and have fun. Also, buy another hydrometer for when you break your first one :)
 
It's been just about a week and so far I am very happy with the experience. I hit my 1/3 break and dosed my final Fermaid-O tonight (the 6th night after pitching) and things are looking, smelling and tasting good. From here I'm going to take regular SG readings and aerate as long as fermentation is continuing. I have to be honest, I have not yet listened to the podcasts, though I will. I am a full time student, a father of a one-year-old and my wife and I are slowly moving into a new house. Please forgive me lol.
I did have a couple questions I hope someone could help with:
1.) I'm getting nervous about oxidizing and ruining my batch. I've been using a lees stirrer and cordless drill to aerate and have not been overly concerned with being too aggressive, but I'm wondering what I should expect rousing the lees to look like compared to aerating. Should my mead be swirling at all? A lot or a little? Which leads to my next set of questions.
2a.) My equipment kit came with an easy siphon and a bucket with a spigot. Should I rack into my carboy with the spigot? I'm not exactly certain of the measurement but I believe the bottom of the spigot is about an inch and a half above the bottom of the bucket. When racking, I want to leave the gross lees behind. 2b.) Will racking with the spigot leave the gross lees behind and also pull enough of the mead? I feel like that height in that size bucket will mean wasting a pretty good amount mead.
Thank you for your time everyone. I appreciate all your input.
 
I've been seeing my SG drop around 6 points or so daily until today.
11 days after pitch SG: 1.042 (yesterday)
12 days after pitch SG: 1.040 (today)
I stopped aerating a couple days ago and instead have been gently stirring because I passed the 50% break. I'm also seeing pretty consistent airlock activity, a bubble every 3-4 seconds.
Consistent ambient temp: 60-62F
Consistent mead temp: 62-64F
My mead still smells sweet and similar to the rest of the honey I have left. Should I be concerned with my SG dropping more slowly now?
 
What was the OG? It slows down after the halfway point; mine seem to anyway. I saw no one replied to the stirring question below. You can stir it without aeration, just take it easy and don’t make bubbles.
 
When backsweetening, how do you completely mix additional ho eh without oxidizing your mead? When I first made my must I used my drill and lees stirrer and mixed like a mad man. I'm guessing low speed for a longer time, maybe stir clockwise for a minute, then counterclockwise for a min, repeat for a few cycles? What technique do you recommend?
 
You don't need to be so concerned about oxidation to worry about it so much in this regard. Just warm your honey in the sun. Or in a warm sink full of water. Once it's warm, it flows really easily. Just dump it in a hand stir a little bit. Or your drill is also fine.

You really might enjoy starting on 9/5/17 on the podcast. You can learn how to make great mead using modern protocols.
 
I absolutely intend to listen to your podcasts. I'm just short on free time at the moment. Like I said before I'm a full time student, a parent, my wife and I just recently moved and I'm starting a new job next week.

I guess I was both concerned with oxidation and ensuring backsweetened honey was fully dissolved. Your input is much appreciated! Thank you for your time.
 
Hi Bleedmead and welcome. Where about Upstate are you? I live half the week in Saratoga and half in the Bronx.
Don't forget that honey is far more dense than any mead you will be back sweetening so if you add the honey to the mead while gently stirring in an up and down motion without breaking the surface (if you make cheese you learn that that is a better way of stirring culture and rennet into the milk) the honey will per force be well mixed.
 
***UPDATE***
Current SG: 1.013
I can really tell the difference between before and after I stir. My mead appears clear at the top and near the edges of the bucket before I stir. Clouds of particles are spread and blended during and after I stir. I have been careful not to stir too vigorously to avoid aerating. The temp dropped to about 54F-55F 3 or 4 days ago and since then I noticed some differences in my fermentation that I think make perfect sense but I wanted to share regardless:
---Like previously mentioned there's some clarity before stirring,
---my airlock activity has slowed (from about 1 bubble/12 sec last week to 1 bubble/20-30 sec the last couple days),
---and there's a noticeable thin layer of white-ish, tiny bubbles on the surface when I remove the sealed lid (krausen?)

Because the temp is lower I'm trying to stir twice/day to keep the healthy yeast suspended until I have consistent SG readings and rack, stabilize and backsweeten.

***QUESTIONS***
1.) Is there a k-meta and k-sorbate calculator? These were mentioned in the NewBee guide and included a link to vinoenology but I didn't see the calculator. How much of both do I need for a 6 gal batch? (I have pH strips)
2.) How do I calculate ABV after backsweetening? I'm assuming racking then adding honey will throw off the ABV proportion calculated using my dry mead before racking.

As always, thanks guys! HAPPY THANKSGIVING!
 
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***UPDATE***
For the past 10 days my SG has dropped just 4 points, from 1.010 to 1.006, and later tonight (Saturday, December 8th) will mark 44 days since pitch. FYI the majority of my fermentation has been 54-58F, low and slow. My SG is dropping by fractions of a point every day. At what point would you all rack and stabilize?
 
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You can let it warm up to room temp and that will help the yeast finish. You can rack and then stabilize. Your not to change you ABV enough to even be able to tell if all your going to do is add a little honey to sweeten it up.
 
It's been a while so I wanted to post an update and I was hoping to receive some feedback.

As a reminder so you don't have to scroll this is a 6 gallon traditional, K1V, Raw Florida OB honey, OG: 1.098, after backsweetening: SG 1.022

I racked, stabilized and backsweetened. Since then I've been letting my carboy sit and haven't touched it, with the exception of a few samples here and there. I don't have a lot of experience drinking mead so I'm not exactly sure how to describe it but I've listened to many GotMead Live episodes and read from numerous resources.

The sweet OB honey flavor and aroma hit first but there's a "slight something" on the back-end. This batch still hasn't completely cleared yet but it is very close. The samples I've taken have been easy to read through but still have some mild haze. I suspect that mild haze is responsible for "slight something" back-end flavor. I'm expecting this particular back-end flavor and the batch overall to improve with age. I wanted to see if I could get some input regarding using fining agents. I've read many times that 4 months may not be enough for mead to clear on its own and I'd prefer to use as few additives as possible. I can accept waiting patiently but I'm curious about your experiences with fining agents. How do you feel they impact the flavor? Have you ever wished you waited for your mead to clear on its own instead of adding bentonite, super kleer, gelatin, etc.?

Everyone says the best way to learn is to experiment so I bought (6) 1 gallon carboys and French, American and Hungarian medium toast cubes. Once this clears I'm planning on dividing it into the 1 gallon jugs to sample the differences between the oaks. I'll leave 1 or 2 carboys alone as controls, 3 will be used for the oak experiment, and the remaining 1 or 2 will probably be used to experiment with more backsweetening. I suspect that will mean I'll need extra time for it to clear again but I'm not in any hurry.

Additionally, I've heard the terms "flabby" and "body" used. My inexperience prevents me from definitively identifying them in mead but I suspect my mead is indeed "flabby" and/or lacks "body." Correct me if I'm wrong but oaking helps with body and mouthfeel, right?
 
Yes. Oaking adds "grip" and causes it to present less sweet. Only a portion of meads will clear completly on their own. So it's extremely common to use fining agents. I do all of the time. And then run them through a filter as well. If you do it correctly, it improves the flavor a good bit. Not sure why you might feel like you wouldn't want to use them. Everything you put in your mouth is a "chemical." The finning agents drop out and you rack off of them and leave them behind. Along with doing the oaking. I'm glad you are doing the test to learn the differences of each species of wood. Later on, you will also learn that each toast level will aslo present different as well. Acid additions are also something I do on every mead. I might not add any acid. But I will always test every mead to see if it needs it. And 99.5 of them do.

Over oak just a little bit as it will soften and move back some over time. Learn how to do acid adjustments. I wrote a piece on it a while ago too.
 
Thank you very much for this response. I'm so glad you mentioned acid additions. My pH is somewhere around 3.6. I had a feeling it might be high and could benefit from an acid addition. I only got that feeling because I remember hearing you and A.J. on the podcasts mention your meads having pH's in the high 2's sometimes.
 
Bleedmead said:
Thank you very much for this response. I'm so glad you mentioned acid additions. My pH is somewhere around 3.6. I had a feeling it might be high and could benefit from an acid addition. I only got that feeling because I remember hearing you and A.J. on the podcasts mention your meads having pH's in the high 2's sometimes.
Click to expand...

This is something you never want to achieve by some given formula or a target pH. Let your tongue be the guide. Every mead is different based on ingredients and needs to be adjusted accordingly.
 
That's great advice. I'll do some more research on what to expect with acid additions and if I do decide to add some I'll test with samples first. I want to see how oaking and maybe more sweetening changes this batch before I add more variables. Now that I think about it, if someone were to do acid additions, should they be done prior to oaking?
 
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