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A while back I did a bunch of research about Vegans. By definition, honey is not vegan. It does not matter if it is wild honey or farm honey, it is still exploiting an animal for your own benefit. A true vegan would never use an animal to plow the fields to grow their food. Most "true" vegans grow their own food and do not buy it. Most people who claim to be Vegan are not true vegans by definition. They mearly think themselves vegans so they can justify their holier then thou egos. Yeast, while alive, is not an animal so no exploitation occurs, though some fanatical vegans may still see cultivated yeast as non-vegan.

As far as the beer, I think the others are right, if it is not too expensive, I say go for it. I make failed batches of mead often enough to know only test with small batches.
 
A while back I did a bunch of research about Vegans. By definition, honey is not vegan. It does not matter if it is wild honey or farm honey, it is still exploiting an animal for your own benefit.

Technically true, as I stated earlier, but the benifits to the animal and the environment far outweight the minimal exploitation (the bees aren't asked to do any extra work after all, they naturally produce more than they need). Like I said before, by the "word" of the rule, honey definitely is NOT vegan, however, it is open to interpretation whether it violates the "intention" of the law. Also, it seems more silly to call a person who's only animal product is honey a vegitarian than to call the vegan, and making up new terms just gets assinine!

Now, if you asked my girlfriend if she was vegan you'd get this answer (or close): yes, exept for honey. (which is a lot clearer and simpler than saying "I am vegitarian but don't eat this long list of animal products" and pulling out a short book explaining what she doesn't eat!)

A true vegan would never use an animal to plow the fields to grow their food.

True, but a moot point since we don't use animals for this anymore here.

Most "true" vegans grow their own food and do not buy it.

This is untrue, unless we're counting the number of "true" vegans on our fingers! Very very few people grow all of their own food, we're talking about a couple of communes somewhere and that would be it - urban people and even most farmers absolutely cannot grow all their own food in North America/Europe.

People who want to make these catagories too black and white tend to have too polerized of a thought process, the truth is that as with all things humans do, there's a lot of grey area (though the definition is clear).

Most people who claim to be Vegan are not true vegans by definition. They mearly think themselves vegans so they can justify their holier then thou egos.

This, unfortunately is true, many "vegans" don't even read the ingredients and many are very holier than thou. My girlfriend catches more flack from those people than she does from rednecks sadly (and confusingly...).

Sorry to rant back at you, but while I'm not vegan, it's been a huge part of my life for a fifth of my life, my girlfriend gives me crap sometimes because she doesn't even debate with people about this stuff (unless really provoked) and I do (I loves a good debate!).
 
I am not trying to counter your points or anything. Dealing with that stuff on a daily basis is much different then researching from a book or a website. However, the texts I read on Vegans "claimed" that bees only produce extra honey because we take it and their instincts tell them they need more for the winter. I have also read some sites that claim the bees would be better off in the wild and that all the selective breeding people do with bees is what is causing them to die off. Unknowingly breeding weaknesses or suceptability to diseases. I am sure it is mostly unfounded claims without any scientific research, but if enough people read it, eventually some will believe it.

I also understand you can not grow everything you eat, unless you owned a farm, maybe, but that would still be a lot of work. But I do know of a few very active co-ops that meet to trade food and such. Not saying that they are all Vegans, but it would definately be a way a "true" vegan could live. Most modern day vegans think shopping at Whole Foods is enough. I do not see how you can live that way. If we were meant to live that way then they should not have made cows so delicious. :)
 
Ha, fair points all, especially the bits about what many people say about bees possibly being meaningless propaganda.

Not sure we're "meant" to live any particular way though, that's the joy of having evolved our own morals, we get to choose how we're "meant" to be! That's one of the things I live about reasonable vegans like my girlfriend though, she doesn't want to eat animals, but doesn't hold it against those who do, we are on the top of the food chain after all, she says. For her it's more about trying to get better living and slaughter conditions for the animals, which as someone who grew up on a farm that did things the right way, I agree with whole heartedly.

I can't wait to own a house though so I can tear out the entire lawn and garden it. Lawns don't taste good, therefor they must go! I really want to raise chickens too (legal in Vancouver but not where I live now) for their eggs, it would be great to have a supply of guaranteed truely freerange eggs to eat... yum! I'd also like a goat to make cheese from... but then I'd have to keep getting it pregnant and selling it's calves, and they eat too bloody much... maybe if I have an acreage one day - one can dream!

I'm a pretty weird person.;)
 
I'm a pretty weird person.;)

Huh, chickens, a goat, and garden are pretty much top of the list for me as well. Fruit trees and bees round it out. Cave for aging is on the wish list. I consider myself no more than moderately weird, however. :p
 
Huh, chickens, a goat, and garden are pretty much top of the list for me as well. Fruit trees and bees round it out. Cave for aging is on the wish list. I consider myself no more than moderately weird, however. :p

Good to know I'm not the only one!
 
Well, chickens, goats, and gardens are a bit more mainstream here in the Tennessee Valley. Throw in some bee hives for honey to make my mead and count me in. ;D

I am looking to buy 100+ acers after my wife finishes school.
 
Huh, chickens, a goat, and garden are pretty much top of the list for me as well. Fruit trees and bees round it out. Cave for aging is on the wish list. I consider myself no more than moderately weird, however. :p

It all sounds perfectly normal to me, Aaron. What that says about me I'll leave to your discretion. :)

I'd love to have some space where I could do husbandry sorts of things, but without a husband I think it'd be more work than I'd want to handle on my own, especially since I have lived in suburbia almost my entire life and have absolutely no idea at all how to survive the rural life. The learning curve would be great, and I'm not so smart. :)
 
I'm a pretty weird person.;)

Before I even hit high school, I was designing an underground dwelling for my theoretically self-sustaining hobby farm, so if you're weird for wanting chickens and goats and garden, you're in good company... although I was always under the impression that goats and gardens are mutually exclusive...