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Donation sent, albeit with much less enthusiasm than some of you.

I am afraid I can not agree with you all. I think that making GM a subscription site would be a tragedy, and will inevitably lead to it's failure. I have many hobbies, and as a result a lot of forums. I have never had to pay a subscription for any of them, and I do not believe I ever will. Open exchange of information should never be taxed in such a way.

I do my best to support the sites that I frequent whenever possible. I make purchases from associated online stores (i.e. cafe press), I try to make donations during fund-drives, and I click on every Google ad word ad I see. I know that many here have expressed appreciation to members that do this. However, there will always be spectators (or lurkers) who only post every once in a while, and expecting them to pay a fee when they are just not as obsessed as the rest of us is unfair to the community and counter productive
in the mission to spread the love of mead.

As for the 30 day trial; It takes a lot longer than a month to build an obsession. I did nothing but read books and forums, and ask questions for 4 months before I made my first batch of mead. If I had to pay to ask questions after a month, I do not think I would have asked many more GM'ers for help. I would have joined another forum. I can not support anything that excludes or impairs young mead makers.

If GM becomes a pay site, someone will start a free one.

The information on Gotmead is priceless, but I do not think that I could ever support a decision to move to a subscription based service.
I will be starting what I feel is a more productive thread about fundraising ideas for GM. I hope to see some of your input in there. I met some of you over the weekend at Meadfest, and we have a pretty good group of intelligent people here. Let's not give up on GM yet. There is a better way. We just have to find it.

Sincerely,

John aka Greenblood
 
Hey Dude,

After meeting you at the fest and partying, smoking cigars and generally raising hell I have a pretty good idea of where you're coming from and that you are not saying this to try and be anything other than completely honest.

I've kinda stressed on this myself. I think in the short haul the subscriptions will be able to keep the site solvent, and I think Vicky is wide open to some fundraising suggestions. I have a couple of things in the works that I can't really comment on until I have some solid committments back from people, but things could work out.

Don't give up on us yet,

Cheers,

oskaar
 
First of all, I *totally* appreciate the donations that y'all have made to date. Over $200 has come in over the course of this discussion, and that helps defray a bit of the costs, which at this point are backlogged on my credit cards.

John (and all the others who have done so much to support me), this is not directed at a single individual. This is my frustration venting in general, so read at your own risk, it isn't pretty.

:::::::RANT WARNING::::::RANT WARNING::::RANT WARNING::::


I am totally open to fundraising suggestions, but the 'pitch and beg' thing doesn't work. 'Please donate to support this site' is used by most of the sites I go to that provide info on this level, and the folks running them starve, unless they have other jobs.

This *is* my job. It takes *all* my time. So, if I'm to give it *all* my time, then how do I make money to eat, and keep the site up?

John, I'm with Oskaar, and realize you're trying to help. It bothers me too, but I can't think of a way to keep things going. I make like $20 a month on Cafepress, about 15 cents a day on Google, and unless I slap Google ads *everywhere*, that won't change, and if I do, y'all will get pissed at me. The store goes up soon, but as I only make 4-10% on sales, unless y'all are buying around $10,000 a month (right, thats gonna happen), I'll make cents there too.

So, what you're suggesting is that the info here isn't worth $20/*year*. That's like 5 lattes, or 20 99 cent burgers. Sad to think that a person who would pay $20 or more for Kens' book, wouldn't think that the 40,000 posts here are worth that much. Do I sound a little pissy? Yeah, I do. People cough up all day long every day for stupid stuff like bags of chips at the gas station, and think nothing of paying $12 to have some dweeb wash their car, and are willing to pay thousands for their hobbies (check out the cost of hunting, or scuba diving, etc) but ask them to pony up a few bucks for internet info to *learn* about their hobby, and they get all up about how the internet should be *free*. I say crap. We've become a nation of people who expect it to be handed to them. I expect, and often *do* pay for info on the web. I paid to have a podcasting class mailed to me, so I could learn how to do it. I didn't bitch, the $20 *easily* saved me several hours of hunting on Google for my answers, and was well worth it.

If $20/year isn't a reasonable cost to find nearly every answer you ever wanted to know about making mead, then I've been wasting my time, and need to take GM down now before I waste any more.

How much use would GM be if it were *off*? Then there's nothing, and all this data ceases to exist. All the recipes, all the posts, all the articles. All of it. Am I pissy? Yep, sure am. I just spent my weekend at the MeadFest running my ass off, not getting to participate in the events, seminars or tastings, so I could podcast the damn thing. I'm spending another 4 days out here, *at my expense*, to interview multiple meaderies so I can post reviews on them and their meads. But, hey, I should do it for free. 'Cause it sure ain't worth the princely sum of $20 a year.

Basically, it sometimes feels like I'm to provide it all, do it all for free, and keep it coming, and no matter what, don't expect to get paid for the effort. Ever. 'Cause the internet and all its information should be free. It keeps coming back to that. Sorry guys, but I'm not buying it. What I'm being told here is that I've spent 8 years of my life creating the greatest mead resource in the *world*, and it isn't worth anything?
That's kind of sad. And makes me realize that maybe I wasted 8 years I coulda been working for a living.

So, unless I can derive some steady sort of revenue from the site, the site can't support itself, and it goes away, plain and simple. And I will no longer take money from my personal budget, and funnel money from my paying work (which is little enough) into keeping it going. I have basically paid for 8 years for *you* to have free access to this resource. Heaven forbid I should expect any kind of recompense. Had it not been for a free hotel room, folks buying me meals, and Julia graciously offering me her house this week, I wouldn't have been at MeadFest, either.

Guess we'll just have to watch and see how long it takes to die, or something comes up. I'm unable to keep funding it. And a $200 or so every 6 months makes a small dent, but doesn't begin to cover it. So, either there is a revenue stream the site produces, or, well, I don't know. I don't want to see my baby die, but if it comes to that or eat, I'm sorta out of options.

All y'all who have graciously kicked in greater or lesser donations or have purchased something, thank you *very* much. You have no idea how much I appreciate it. But I think perhaps I've overextended myself by expecting that this site had value.

Vicky - stepping down of my soapbox, need to sleep before the next interview
 
Vicky,
I am new to the whole forum thing in general. There are some hobbies that I have that I wouldn't cough up money for...ever...because I am just not that interested and/or there are other good resources available.

THAT IS NOT THE CASE HERE!

I like the idea of some areas "for pay" and others not. That is how I see it handled elsewhere.

It seems that you have put your heart and soul into this site and this must be agony. One thing I have learned over the years - Do what YOU NEED to do FOR YOU. And if people don't want to pay to continue playing, its their loss.

Try to keep your chin up!
Holly
 
As for adding ads and ad space to each page, I don't think that would be such a horrible fate. Many commercial sites have banner and Google-style ads wedged in at every conceivable spot. But since pages can be any size, the content hasn't been pushed away at all.

While the GM storefront will likely bring in some revenue, from what Vicky was saying, it seems like selling ad space and adding more Google ads is the only way for a steady income to be generated under the current business model. That'd be a lot of ads. Displaying them in a non-obnoxious manner is just a matter of webpage design, which Vicky is good at. Selling ad space is a real job, though. It seems like a dedicated sales person is required, someone with experience or a willingness to learn. My point here is that Vicky is one person, and GM has become a BIG site.

I'm a big believer in the Internet being a place of more-or-less free access to information. I'm also a big believer in peace and good health. Unfortunately, life doesn't always work that way. No one WANTS things to change, but paid access is easily the lesser of two evils here: a subscription to GM vs. the demise of GM. The choice is clear for me.

It's not that GM's vast store of information is or isn't worth putting money into Vicky's coffers; since Joel Grey's view about money's effect upon the Earth's rotation still seems to be true, Vicky HAS to have $$$ to keep this place afloat. The only question is, will subscriptions, an increase in the ads, and the percentage from the storefront be enough to do the job? Different business structures here might open up different possibilities, but as things stand, and barring a telethon (Meadaid?), we have only the ads, subs, and a meager product cut from the store to work with.

The storefront might become a pleasant surprise, revenue-wise, but with only a 4-10% cut for GM, it would be a big surprise indeed if it amounted to very much at the end of the month. As a matter of principle, we'll all try to buy things here. But let's be real, we'll be buying elsewhere too -- where ever we can get the particular product we want, or where ever we can get the best price. Happy or sad, that's reality.

To be perfectly honest, I have my doubts that GM can pay its own way with just the three options herein mentioned. In my view, either a change in site structure is required (scaling back content to the point where hosting costs are reduced); a change in site status (becoming a nonprofit, and pursuing library or information-based grants, etc.); or a closer alignment with commercial meaderies, and wineries producing mead, since so far, GM is mostly about home mead making. There was a time when, not so long ago (back when Vicky started things here), if you were talking about making mead, you were talking about hobbyists and/or history, pretty-much without exception. That's changing, and maybe GM needs to pursue the commercial guys more than the amateurs from now on. This includes developing resources and services that commercial meaderies have need of, like professional directories and consultation services (with talent subcontracted out for particular jobs).

My main point is that something's gotta change here. GM simply can't go on as it has. My feeling is that thinking small will just delay the inevitable, rather than open up new horizons. I'm no businessman. I have no detailed plans to present, and I don't feel like I've got a solid handle on what Vicky's long term goal is for GM anyway. Still and all, adding content or making site changes from this point on probably isn't sensible unless they actively pursue her long term goal in some definable way. What's a good goal? To be the biggest, most detailed mead resource on the Internet? Well, it's already that, and it hasn't made things solvent. To become self-sufficient, then? Well, of course -- but that's the means by which a goal is achieved, not a goal unto itself. It's Vicky's place, and her call...but since this is a public Forum, maybe we can discuss what GM could become, based on what it is, and what it is not.

The winds of change are upon us folks, and like it or not, it carries the scent of money.

-David
 
I found this interesting article about funding web sites, which I believe is relevant to GM.

http://www.addme.com/issue284.htm

In summation, sites can no longer rely on ads and links to pay for everything. In fact, subscription is the path that is being taken by many sites that offer a valuable resource of information. I believe that this is therefore the appropriate thing for Vicky to do. Additional offerings, such as e-zines, recipe books, DVD's etc., will certainly help to supplement the revenue, but the core income must be fairly solid to ensure the site remains viable for now.

I have the same fears as everyone else with respect to losing the "throbbing brain" of mazers out there. But this subscription may only be for a short period until the ads, partnerships with meaderies etc., become the mainstay of revenue for the site.

Angus
 
Dang. I sent in a donation, but me being out of touch with things such as I am, I used a 0.37 cent stamp as opposed to a 0.39 cent stamp. *idiot*
 
Oh. My. God.

Scott, dude, you *rock*. A copy of Miriam's book, and some GM gear is on its way to you. And dude, you're good for 12 years......LOL.. Sorry about the typo, and THANKS for the subscription. Scott took the typo to heart, and sent $240. Omigod.

Jason (Jab), you are the other rock star. $100......WOW. Five years for you, and the book and cool gear.

Vicky - touched by the show of support

P.S. I will be making Miriams' book available in a members-only spot (to be posted here) once I've gotten all those who've donated upgraded, as I think that this should be the first 'premium' item out there. If you haven't got it, get it, its great! Link coming soon (or an email with an attachment - programming as fast as I can)
 
Vicky don't be retarded. That was a 'donation' not a subscription. I will pay my dues when the subscription side of things are up. Glad to see you upbeat again, even if just a little. Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.

-jb
 
Honey, I'm *totally* upbeat! Just got off the phone with Angus, and we're plotting a series of books, real books with covers and everything. I need to cobble up the start-up cost for publishing, around $1000 for a 500 book run, but dude, GM is gonna *publish*.

Oh, another kudos: Jay, honey you rock my world! My hubby and I are gonna crack a bottle of that nectar you sent (could *not* figure out what I'd ordered from Staples, lol) for our Valentines' celebration this weekend. (Jay sent me 3 bottles of mead with his subscription!) Now I just have to figure out *which* one, they all sound yummy.

Guys, GM *will* survive. All y'all have come up with some *bitchin* ideas, and we *will* make this work. I'm working on the advertising stuff, and figure I'll offer article sponsorships to put ads in articles, plus we've the top ad, the side ad, and the text ads on the right column. The books are working, the subscription is coming together, and with the store, the Gear and some other things I've got cooking, I'm confident I'll get this site to where I can really start pushing it forward.

Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou! I am a lucky woman, to have friends such as y'all.

Vicky - plotting the next phase of my nefarious plan to mead the world
 
OK, check out the wrapped forum here:
http://www.gotmead.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=103

I know the main page is coming up too wide, but on my screen all the under-pages are working ok, and viewable at 1024x768 on my laptop. To my eyes the fonts are large enough to read at normal reading distance.

I'm working on the main page width, and won't turn on the function as a menu item until its fixed. Meanwhile, if y'all would bang around from the URL above and give me feedback on font sizes, readability, width on your system, etc. in both IE and FF, that would be great (I promise not to get snarky!).

Problems I'm aware of and working on:

- main forum page width *way* too wide
- thread view - forum avatars are showing scroll bars - will fix column width

Bring it on, I'd like to get this implemented before I have to go out of town on Tuesday.....

Vicky - trying to get the major stuff out of the way before leaving Tuesday afternoon to visit family for a week
 
Vicky,
Just a quick comment on the new wrap after a very quick cursory look. I think it is coming together. My only preference would be to have the subject line wrap less...If you can change the forum table at all, I think you could reduce the posted by column (let that wrap) and make the subject column be a little wider. I think you could also steal some from the views/replies columns and the last post column...

I know that was kinda nit picky, but not meant to be critical! I think it is coming together.

Hope you had/are having a great trip.

Holly
 
To me it looks fine. Fonts are good, width is good.

I'm viewing at 1400x1051 with no problems. I say live it or live with it!

Cheers,

Oskaar
 
Looked at it in Netscape, Opera, IE, and Mozilla, and it's fine in all of them (though there's a bit of a scroll bar in IE -- not too bad, but there you go).

-David
 
On firefox & IE 6 on a 1280x1024 screen, I get horizontal scroll bars, so it doesn't quite fit on the screen. About a third to a half the RH "featured sponsors" is off the screen.

I have no problems with readability.
 
At home it's fine, which is on 1400x1050 res. At school, which run crappy Mac OS 9, even on 1290x680 the right side is jumbled together. Thats ok though, on this POS you aren't supposed to be able to use internet anyway. *mwahaha*
 
Got ya all beat

Proud owner of a 12 year subscription lol 240.00 sent by paypal

You did get it didn't ya oh Meadwench?
 
Vicky the Gotmead Webwench said:
Oh. My. God.

Scott, dude, you *rock*. A copy of Miriam's book, and some GM gear is on its way to you. And dude, you're good for 12 years......LOL.. Sorry about the typo, and THANKS for the subscription. Scott took the typo to heart, and sent $240. Omigod.

Jason (Jab), you are the other rock star. $100......WOW. Five years for you, and the book and cool gear.

Vicky - touched by the show of support

P.S. I will be making Miriams' book available in a members-only spot (to be posted here) once I've gotten all those who've donated upgraded, as I think that this should be the first 'premium' item out there. If you haven't got it, get it, its great! Link coming soon (or an email with an attachment - programming as fast as I can)
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