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Terroir

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Oskaar

Oskaar

Got Mead Partner
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Dec 26, 2004
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From my wine course discussion forum:

Here is a discussion topic for you all - what is your view of the true value of the concept of "terroir"? Is it more important in terms of making the correct decisions in the vineyard? Or is its true value in marketing?

Whaddya think?

Oskaar
 
Well, no pun intended, but terroir's importance is a "value" judgment in this case. If you make wine and want to be the best you can be in your chosen vocation, an understanding of terroir is fundamental to your craft. But the marketing weenies of the "wine world" have turned it into something more than that -- a tool to sell wines at even higher retail prices, by allowing region to be used to take the concept of limited production to its logical endpoint. Anything limited, reserved, or otherwise not widely available is obviously "better," no?? :laughing7:
 
I have to agree with Wayneb on this one. Terrior has been discussed ad infinitum in the beer forums: mainly, does it exist in beer? The concept kind of intrigued me at the time. The conclusion I came to was that while it does exist in the wine and cheese world, it's used more as a marketing gimmick. A good vintner or cheese maker will understand how to take advantage of it as part of the process producing the best goods they can. Otherwise, it becomes a tool of the "marketing weenies".
 
I'm a firm believer in terroir, I think. At some point it becomes hard to separate the influence of a particular region and the people who grow the grapes in a particular region, especially nowadays when the regions are getting so small only a few producers can fit in them. But let's lump the whole thing into the terroir concept and I think it can be extremely pronounced even over short distances.

While that's a really cool result of years and years of careful viticulture, it's only "worth" as much as the marketing snobs can get people to believe it's worth. I think the true value is that you can pick up a Cabernet that works well with your meal, and then have an entirely different Cab with an entirely different meal. Same grape, two flavors. It can even be from the same producer, same region, but different years. Does that make it worth more money? Well, yes I suppose it does because each one is "specialized" to serve a particular need. Does it make it worth $300/bottle. Hell no. ;D

I've had some tastes from $300+ bottles (yay wine tasting with the parents), and none have been markedly better than some well-made $80 bottles I've tried (and even bought). The only difference was the name on the label. But, frankly, the name does matter because people with money say it does. They're the idiots spending triple to get the same product, let them spend the money. What else are they going to do with it? (universal health care is so pedestrian... what are public schools?....)

Aaron <--closet socialist and hater of all things that come from marketing deparments :protest:
 
Trick question both, if there was no real value in the vinyard you wouldnt see certaine types of grapes all planted in the same valleys! It also has marketing value as you wouldnt see court battles and all the lobbying thats done in california to be part of a certaine appelation. If I had to chose Id say it has more value in the vinyard! The right vine on the right soil with the right weather patterns is going to make good juice no matter what.
:happy10:
 
My sister, who worked in the restaurant industry in London for a few years, told me that the wicked "secret" in the wine industry is that the only way to tell the difference between a Bordeaux and a Burgundy is the shape of the bottle (Bordeaux bottles have shoulders). This would lend creedence to the 'marketing' camp.

I grew up in England where the milk comes entirely from grass grazing cows as opposed to the corn supplemented cows here in the States. Same breed, Friesian I think, but entirely different taste in the milk. This points more toward the 'Terroir' camp as the one with value.

So, do I think that some wines cleverly market themsleves along the Terroir concept to add uniqueness to their wines and thus increase their value while really having no distinguishable qualities that can be used to identify them from similar wines? Absolutely. Does the concept of Terroir really exist such that it is possible to tell the difference between a French Bordeaux and a Californian Bordeaux? Absolutely!

Glad I could help answer this debate ;)

Angus
 
Hey, Angus! Sounds as if we're all in agreement in this "debate!" :laughing7:

Certainly the region where the grapes are grown will have an effect on the wine produced from them. Again, any winemaker worthy of the title will do all they can to understand the influences of microclimate, soil constituents and structure on their grapes, and on their wine. But I'm with Aaron, you, Wade, etc.... Terroir is now used almost exclusively as a marketing tool, when it is rightly only one of the descriptors that should be used to describe a particular winery's product.
 
It certainly does exist....

All you have to do is go to Dry Creek Valley and taste their Zin's... And notice the similar taste in all of them. THen go to Napa, taste a Zin from there and notice that it is not even remotely the same....

At the same time, in this era of single vineyard wines, I think it is often used to just push the price of a bottle up.

Brian
 
Hehe how about "Rutherford dust"? I head about it from a wine pourer and thought they were BSing me. After a few stops in the area, though, I must admit there was a particular flavor to the area. Subtle, but there. Nothing I'd shell out extra money for though. :P
 
I havent heard much on Terrior other then the basics. I am just going off of wikipedia
The value is in how good your taste buds are.
-Some of those wine tasters that can tell you which year and location an unlabled bottle of wine is will find value in it. The bad thing is they might need to spend $100 for a bottle made from the north bank of a river not that dreadful south bank swill. :-\
-An experianced wine drinker could probably tell a difference but not really know what it is that is different.
-On the other hand there is something to be said for us plebians that arent so sensitive to wine taste that can find a $10 bottle of 'swill' that we enjoy.

For those that like a particular wine at a particular vineyard vs the same in another is everything non terrior the same? Fertilizers, chemicals, length of time on the vine, barrel compisition? All of those would seem to effect the taste along with terrior.
 
Uh, no. No grapes worth mention there, nothing worthwhile, nope! If there were any grapes there they'd probably be terrible...yeah yeah that's it TERRIBLE. I wouldn't waste my time checkiing it out. Fishing, yeah fishing that's it. No small vineyards there since the gold rush, nah. Wasn't ever the premier area in California for Zinfandel, nah. Not an AVA or anything like that, nah. Napa and Sonoma, the only two valleys worth checking out, yeah, yeah, that's it! :wave:
 
D@mmit, Oskaar! You're giving away all the secrets now!! :P

I spent many heady days cruising around that part of Amador County every time I had a trip up that way in the early to mid 90's, drinking up all that $6 per bottle incredible Zin that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY ELSE KNEW ABOUT! Guess that's over now.... :sad11:

;D
 
So I take it this is not the Shenandoah in VA. Ahh, it's all clear to me now.... Hello google maps!
 
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