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Wild Culture capturing--attempts 1 and 2

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akueck

akueck

Certified Mead Mentor
Certified Mead Mentor
Jun 26, 2006
4,958
11
0
Ithaca, NY
I'm moving in a few weeks (from the tree-thick hills to downtown), and my wife has expressly forbidden me trying this after the move. So here it goes.

1/2 lb light DME
2.25 qt water
2 g tettnang hops
10 minute boil, final volume 2.25 qt

This was split into 2 containers. One went outside covered with a single layer of cheesecloth at 1pm and will be brought in soon. The other will then go out overnight.

No concrete plans about what to do next. It kind of depends on what exactly happens. If it doesn't work, I'll just try it again after we move. ;)
 
Nope. Dumping the lees outside would require navigating some narrow and rotting stairs, then pouring the lees over a ledge. Mine go down the drain, sad as it is. At our last place I did dump lees outside, but never got a chance to culture the wind.

Updates: both have a couple of bubbles on the surface, but I can't say for sure if it is activity or just some bubbles. Smells malty with a little hops so no info there either. When I did a sour mash it was bubbly and stinky overnight, so I was guessing this would be the same. Maybe I didn't capture very many beasties.

Shook them up a bit this morning to pump some air in. Maybe that will help.
 
When I did my experiment with wild culture (see my Wild Thing brewlog, called "Olde Tyme Meade" in the Patrons area) I didn't initially have much success with airborne inoculation. But when I added a berry or two and a leaf from some mountain currants growing outside, things took off like gangbusters. Seems that those yeasties like to hang out on the surface of fresh fruit, just waiting until the time is ripe (pun intended) to enter thru the broken skin of those that have fallen to do their rotten deeds! ;)
 
I wish the fruit trees by our deck were ready. We're going to be moving only a few weeks before the first apricots are going to appear. :( A leaf might be an interesting addition though if these don't take off. I'm going to be patient for now and see what happens.
 
Good news and bad.

Good: the "overnight" jar smells a tad sour. Not vinegar sour, more like sour beer sour. I will consider this a good thing until proven wrong.

Bad: the "afternoon" jar has developed white, grey/green, and black mold colonies at the lip and under the lid. It does look like something was trying to grow in there (some cloudy stuff near the center at the bottom), but I have dumped it in light of the considerable amount of mold.

I would like to visit the Huckleberry regional park soon. If the berries are out, I will collect some and try again with those. Still no ripe apricots in the tree outside and the blackberry vine is all flowers still. Perhaps the random strawberry plant we have will pop one out in the next week before we move.
 
It was pretty? All fuzzy and colorful. In reality mold and yeast are not all that different, we just don't like the taste of mold farts.

Also, there is a strawberry! Perhaps tomorrow I will boil up some more starter wort and try the berry.
 
I think we are going to have a bumper crop of wild strawberries up here in McCall this year. Lots of plants and massive amounts of blooms while I was out mushroom hunting a week or two ago. Time to hit the woods again!
 
I admire molds from a scientific perspective, but I'm not keen on eating them as a general rule. :)

(OT, there is an open bar each evening at my teacher conference at Tahoe...wish you were here!)
 
Summer vacation and they make you go to a conference? At least there are drinks... My wife is also drinking--margaritas in the FL keys. Apparently there is good diving there. ;) Tahoe is totally the wrong direction though. Next time tell them to move it to Napa.

Real questions: do I add a strawberry leaf too or just the berry? Do I let it get really really ripe or is just normal ripe ok? And last, should I diversify if I do add a leaf and take one from the apricot tree too?
 
akueck said:
Summer vacation and they make you go to a conference? At least there are drinks... My wife is also drinking--margaritas in the FL keys. Apparently there is good diving there. ;) Tahoe is totally the wrong direction though. Next time tell them to move it to Napa.

Real questions: do I add a strawberry leaf too or just the berry? Do I let it get really really ripe or is just normal ripe ok? And last, should I diversify if I do add a leaf and take one from the apricot tree too?
Click to expand...

Tough call, but I like the idea. But ya gotta think (supposition only, no proof) that there would be different micro-flora on the leaves versus the fruit. The ones on the fruit are there because they like it there, the ones on the leaves the same. Which would bring the flavor out the best? Seems the yeast would concentrate more in an environment that would feed them better, and I'm betting on the fruit.

Hmmm. I'm loving this whole wild yeast idea. If I do go look for wild strawberries this week, I'll definitely set aside a couple of different experiments ("real yeast", fruit propagated yeast and leaf propagated yeast) just for grins. They will probably be wines at first (would love to use honey but I can still get an idea on which one to pursue).

I can jump on my mountain bike, go a mile and find woods that no one has been to for years. This would be a real test of "absolutely wild" yeasts!

Sigh... Now if I can get motivated to actually go do it...
 
akueck said:
Real questions: do I add a strawberry leaf too or just the berry?
Click to expand...

The more things you add, the more likely you are to get a yeast, but if I had to pick one, I think the concentration of the yeast will be greatest on the berry. As they ripen, the concentration of yeast should go up as microscopic breaks in the fruit skin will give them juice with enough sugar for them multiply.

Hmmm... down here, the elderberries are ripe, and I could try with a few of them.
 
wildaho said:
I can jump on my mountain bike, go a mile and find woods that no one has been to for years. This would be a real test of "absolutely wild" yeasts!

Sigh... Now if I can get motivated to actually go do it...
Click to expand...

Oh! Take me! That sounds awesome. What is your policy on mead-drinking houseguests (who also love beer)?

Sounds like I'll use just the berry for now and see what happens. There are actually 2 of them, one quite ripe and one only at the forward edge of ripe. Guess I'll throw them both in and get what I get. Later I'll try the huckleberries from the park.
 
Have only used wild yeast to make mead so far (from Orange and Apple). As I am not using nutrient, I have found it really important to pre-create the yeast and add little honey to yeast before pitching into must (and I now pitch a lot of volume of yeast water - 5 to 10% of total volume).

And of the two - Apple is strongest.

For bread have used many other wild yeasts (basil, rose etc), but apple is stronger than those by a long shot.
 
I would agree to use the ripest fruit that you can because that's the most likely place to have wild yeast hang out--where there's food, and a lot of it. I think that while there would be random airborne yeast falling on the leaves, there wouldn't be as many of them there for the simple reason that the leaf just isn't as sweet as the fruit and if there's no food, they aren't going to multiply as much.

It's a fun experiment I'd love for my biology students to do. Do you think I'd get in trouble for teaching them how to catch and reproduce alcohol-excreting organisms?

heh heh heh
 
You could tell them to use it for a sourdough starter. ;)

I moved the "overnight" yeast into a glass jar. There is a decent layer of yeast in there.

Today I cooked up another 1/2 gallon of starter wort. 2 cups went into the overnight jar as yeast food, 2 cups went into a clean empty jar, and the remaining 4 cups are being saved in a mason jar for later use. I put all 2 strawberries into the 2 cups of wort. On berry was slightly underripe, the other slightly overripe. Both glass jars are airlocked. I think I need to make a better habit of pumping oxygen into these to get the yeast thinking frisky thoughts.
 
I think that you're most likely to get best results with fruit that are ripening, but not overripe. The plants naturally imbue their fruit with lots of acids, keeping the pH of underripe fruit very low, to discourage the growth of anything that could disrupt the development of the seeds inside. Once the seeds are ready, the fruit "ripens," becoming increasingly more gorged with sugars, and slowly climbing in pH. Initially only our friendly yeasts will grow in the vicinity of those ripe fruits, but eventually the pH is high enough that mold spores and various bacteria can get a foothold.

It's my theory, and only a theory, but since I've had luck doing this with ripe fruit but not overripe fruit, its my story and I'm sticking with it! ;)
 
Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. Too late now! Also I realized soon after typing "I need more oxygen" that an airlock was definitely the wrong way to go on that front. Aluminum foil now resides at the top of the jugs.

On the bacteria front, I'm ok with some "extra" bugs being in there. As long as I don't make vinegar, I'll call it beer. And even vinegar wouldn't be the worst thing, though hoppy vinegar does sound rather unappealing. We shall see. So far, predictably, nothing of interest to report.
 
akueck said:
Oh! Take me! That sounds awesome. What is your policy on mead-drinking houseguests (who also love beer)?

Sounds like I'll use just the berry for now and see what happens. There are actually 2 of them, one quite ripe and one only at the forward edge of ripe. Guess I'll throw them both in and get what I get. Later I'll try the huckleberries from the park.
Click to expand...

I'd love to have you as a houseguest Aaron. Between my aged beers and meads, I think we could have a good time! I've got a very small space but I think we could find some room for you somewhere, either here or at friends. Two breweries (in a town of 2500) and lots and lots of wild woods around us. There are even a couple of very tempting lakes. One really big one right in town and lots of alpine lakes within a short walk. I guess that's why I haven't been posting much lately. I've just been loving my new home!

I DO NOT miss living in the city!

:cheers:
Wade
 
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