What would you classify this as??

[Golddiggie]

Alright, here's the rub, or brew as the case stands...

Since I'm bottling both my current brews tomorrow (Saturday 12/4) I'll have two empty 5 gallon carboys (as well as my primary bucket fermenter, 7-1/2 gallon I believe, and 6 gallon carboy)... Well, I just CAN'T have that now can I? I picked up the ingredients for the next brew... It's based on an Imperial Stout, but (as you should already know) I couldn't leave well enough alone, or it at 'stock' strength... I've not made the transition to either partial, or full, grain brewing yet, that will come later...

So for this run the list goes as follows:
Malt: 4 3.3lb cans Dark syrup
Grains (crushed): 4oz Dark Crystal; 4oz Roasted Barley; 8oz chocolate (deleted the 4oz of Black and added the extra 4oz to the chocolate, making it 8oz ).
Hops: Bittering: 1oz Cascade, Aroma: 1oz Fuggle (changed from the original Warrior and Willamette)
Yeast: Primary: Wyeast Liquid 1084 Irish Ale. Secondary: Lalvin EC-1118
Extra's: 3-5lbs honey, type TBD, but thinking wildflower again... ;D I know, who would have guessed??
Misc: Plan to age for 2-4 weeks on top of boubon soaked oak cubes.
Maybe: Thinking I might age for another x weeks on a vanilla bean...

I will be making a starter for this one of about 1/2 cup of the malt dissolved into 1 quart of water, cooled to 70-75F and then pitch the yeast into that. I'm planning on doing that at least the evening before brewing, to give the yeast time to go at it like animals on the Discover Channel ... I'm using a 1.5L mason jar, so that I can easily mix up the malt/water and then pitch the yeast into that, and leave the cover cracked/loose enough to let gasses escape... I'll probably also place it into a bucket, just in case...

Now, depending on how much honey I add, increasing the starting gravity, and how much the EC-1118 actually munches on, I predict I'll get a final ABV of between 14-18%

I will put the honey in when the wort has dropped to under 120F (closer to around 100F I'm thinking)... That way, I have a better chance of retaining the good qualities of the honey and not just boil them away.

I'm predicting that this will be in either primary, secondary, or aging for about 2-1/2 months... Making it ready when we're still in cold weather... If this hit's the target area, it will be a good 'warm you up' beverage... Actually, I'm hoping to have it smooth enough so that you don't really realize how potent it is until you're already through a glass of it and you get smacked by it... heh Also thinking of going with smaller bottles (I think the smallest I can reasonably get are 12oz) so that portion sizes are better for the less robust among us. Maybe mini-champagne bottles would work... I don't think I'm going to carbonate to what most people seem to do... That way, it should be a smoother drink (less carbonic acid)... I'm also looking to have the honey help smooth out the flavor here...

Now, would this (technically, or otherwise) still be considered an Imperial Stout?? Or would it be classified as a Braggot? Or is this more of a "Holy F*** what IS this that I'm drinking and why is the room spinning?"

Post 'em if you've got 'em!

 

[AToE]

What would I call it? Awesome. Try to find some really dark honey is my advice!

Braggot is a slippery term. 5-6 lbs is more (from my understanding) than a honey beer would normally get, but less than a braggot would normally.

I'd call it a braggot though. Why not? Makes it more awesome. IBS - Imperial Braggot Stout.

With those cubes, I think 1 oz is a good lower amount, though 2 oz probably would be more appropriate to cut through all the big flavours (then again, adding the whisky might up the potency... maybe start with 1oz??). Nice touch with the whisky soak, something that's been on my mind for a braggot a lot lately.

 

[Golddiggie]

Thanks AToE... Any strain of honey you can recommend? The wildflower stuff at the local apiary is pretty dark... Think it's time to pick up a 5# jar ($35, ouch!)... I'll give them a call tomorrow to see when they'll be open so that I can get some... Might as well get 10 pounds if I'm driving out there.

I was almost foaming at the mouth when tweaking the recipe at the LHBS... Thoughts kept coming into my head... How about if I?? What if I change?? This will be a 5 gallon batch (total volume before fermentation takes hold)... I like the idea of using two types of yeast in this too...

I'm thinking that I'll soak enough for the max dose of cubes, and put them in 1oz (maybe 2oz) at a time... Will consult with my supplier/dealer on that part... I just hope I have enough Evan Williams on hand to do this... I might have to pick up a small bottle of good bourbon to 'treat' the cubes... Hmmmmmm... Makers Mark?? ;D

I like IBS, sounds familiar for some reason though... Ummmmm... do a search on it... Not sure if I want a brew associated with those three letters (in that order)... ISB isn't much better... How about IBSB Imperial Braggot Stout BEAST...

Just looked up the CO2 volumes (on the site listed before, on other threads)... Looks like for an Imperial Stout, it's 1.5-2.3 CO2 volumes... Thinking the same 1.75 that I'm using for my HHP (Honey Heavy Porter) would/could also work well... Don't want to cloud the goodness in the brew with too much CO2... heh

I'll start a brewlog once I actually start this beast of a brew... Hopefully, it will be bottled in 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 months, then ready to drink ~2 weeks later... If this comes out well/as hoped, I might have to find something to submit it into (competition, or whatever)...

What do you think of using small champagne style bottles for this one? With the correct corks, cages, foil, etc?? Thinking BLACK, opaque bottles, so that you cannot see what's inside... It's a mysterious beast... liking where this is heading...

Just found (I hope, sent an email) a local apiary that has some really dark wild flower honey at really good rates.. I hope to hear back either this weekend, or early next week... Actually, I might have to give them a call tomorrow to see about getting answers to the questions I sent them just a few moments ago... Looks like $105 for a 5 gallon bucket o honey... I WANT SOME!!!

 

[AToE]

I'd recommend western buckwheat. (If you're not sure which is available, just post on here where it's from and someone can tell you whether it's eastern or western)

 

[Golddiggie]

I'd recommend western buckwheat. (If you're not sure which is available, just post on here where it's from and someone can tell you whether it's eastern or western)

I think the issue I'll have with that is I want to use regional/local honey... I have found another apiary that has NY Buckwheat, but have no idea how that compares with it's western relative...

 

[Displaced Hick]

I brewed up a big dark braggot last year. If you want to check it out the brewlog is in the patrons brewlog section under "Darker Than the Gates of Hell". If I remember correctly this got an average score of 25 at the last Mazer's Cup (seems to my memory that it fell in the middle of the low and max scores possible). Not bad in my opinion for a first attempt at a braggot

 

[Golddiggie]

I brewed up a big dark braggot last year. If you want to check it out the brewlog is in the patrons brewlog section under "Darker Than the Gates of Hell". If I remember correctly this got an average score of 25 at the last Mazer's Cup (seems to my memory that it fell in the middle of the low and max scores possible). Not bad in my opinion for a first attempt at a braggot

Ummmmm, Hick? I'm not able to access the patron's section yet... Also, the score reference for the Mazer's Cup doesn't really mean much to me (just now) since I don't have any reference (25 out of ??)

BTW, my Honey Porter (my first thing fermenting) is already that dark... > Light enters, but none can be seen... Sort of like a black hole... Hmmmm, maybe I should call it "Black Hole Sun"...

 

[AToE]

I think the issue I'll have with that is I want to use regional/local honey... I have found another apiary that has NY Buckwheat, but have no idea how that compares with it's western relative...

Supposedly it smells more like manure than western.

 

[BrewinNColorado]

Also, the score reference for the Mazer's Cup doesn't really mean much to me (just now) since I don't have any reference (25 out of ??)

The Mazer Cup is an international competition where both home and commercial brewers from around the world enter their meads which are then judged by a phenomenal group of judges (including some moderators from GotMead). The judging is broken out into 2 group, the home and then the commercial. Then is again broken out by style and sometimes sweetness. The competition is held every year in the early spring in Boulder, Colorado and is a great way to get an opinion on how your mead sacks up against others in your style. The score reference is out of 50 points, so a 25, especially on a first run is really good. Congrats Displaced Hick on that score.

I would definitely watch http://mazercup.com/ as there will be more details to come for the 2011 competition.

I actually just made a honey beer recently using a stout recipe and western buckwheat. Make sure you chose western and not eastern. The eastern is smells like a barnyard from my understanding. The buckwheat is very dark, like the stout and lends a great carmel-like taste which compliments the carmel taste from the grains.

Hope this answered your question.

Michael

 

[Golddiggie]

Michael, AToE, thanks for the info... I'll look at the cup when I have some more time... Today is bottling day for my ale and porter...

Since I'm pretty set in doing everything in my power to use local elements (when possible, such as with honey) I think I'm going to stick with a good wild flower... The first batch I used was excellent (to me)... I'm going to be contacting the other source to see when I could get a sample taste to see how it is, and then [probably] purchase a 5 gallon (60#'s) bucket... That way, I'll almost always (well, at least for a while) have some on hand to use... I'll have enough to use in my brews, as well as be able to make batches of mead on the spur of the moment... Hell, at $105/60# bucket, it's the best price I've seen yet... It gets cheaper the more buckets you buy...

BTW, eastern buckwheat sounds more like buttweed...

 

[Golddiggie]

I just crunched the numbers to get the IBU value for the stout I'll be starting next weekend... If I did the math correctly, and the gravity is what I predict it will be, I'm looking at an IBU of 22.31 (can call it 22)...

I ran that calculation with a 40 minute boil on the bittering hops (Cascade) and 8 minutes on the aroma (Fuggle)... Actually, looking at this now, I'll need to boil the cascade for 32-36 minutes, then add the Fuggle for 8 minutes to get the total boil time to under 44 minutes. Otherwise I'll need to run those numbers again...

If I do boil the Cascade for the full 40 minutes and then add the Fuggle, making it a 48 minute boil time with hops, the IBU goes to 24.72... Not a huge change, but I'll need to see what impact that has... I'm leaning towards making the total boil time less, to have less bitterness to the brew... Although it might need it to balance with what else I'm doing to it...

Thoughts???

 

[AToE]

Doesn't the boil time on the bittering hop include the time for the other hops as well?

I thought all boil times for hops were simply time until end of boil. For a 40 minute boil for bittering, and 8 minutes on aroma, you would add the bittering hops, then wait 32 minutes, add the aroma hops, then 8 minutes later take it off the heat.

That sounds like totally normal hopping proceedure to me, except for the shorter than normal boil on the bittering hop (I generally see 60 minutes).

 

[Golddiggie]

The two brews that I'm bottling today both had 30 minutes for bittering, plus 5-8 more after adding the aroma hops... It's the way the recipe is written...

I do think that I'll do ~32-35 for the bittering hops, then 5-8 more for the aroma (getting 40 minutes total)...

I really do like how my first two batches came out... Really looking forward to creating this monster next weekend... >

 

[wildoates]

Imperial Braggot Stout

Melike.

 

[AToE]

I guess the recipe says whatever it says! I've just never run across a recipe where one hop addition was described as "added on top" of another hop's time.

For example, a recipe saying 30 minutes for bittering hop addition, plus 5 minutes for aroma hop just seems a little unconventional. I would normally see that written as 35 minute bittering addition and 5 minute aroma addition.

 

[Golddiggie]

Melike.

Will have to see how it comes out... I might have a tasting gathering for those that wish to (and can get to where I am) once it's done...

I'm already thinking of calling my first porter "Black Hole Sun Porter" (BHSP?)

AToE, it's from the LHBS... I think they try to make it as idiot proof as possible, so that people get good results... Just like the recipe called for adding the honey along with the malt syrup... I'm never going to do that again, now that I know better... ;D

 

[AToE]

AToE, it's from the LHBS... I think they try to make it as idiot proof as possible, so that people get good results... Just like the recipe called for adding the honey along with the malt syrup... I'm never going to do that again, now that I know better... ;D

This could also be just dated information. The only people I've met so far who don't boil of pastuerize their must when they make mead are people who've found this website!

 

[Golddiggie]

This could also be just dated information. The only people I've met so far who don't boil of pastuerize their must when they make mead are people who've found this website!

I'm VERY glad that I found this site... I'm looking forward to reaping the benefits from more intelligent methods for using honey too...

 

[PainInUrHead]

This sounds like one of the coolest concoctions I have discovered on the site(so far). I would really like to try this recipe out(not trying to hijack just would like a taste for myself). Please update us on the taste.

I love this site, I find something interesting or extremely informational every time I get on here and you all are a bevy of information.

I cannot wait to hear from you to tell us how it turns out.

 

[wildoates]

Supposedly it smells more like manure than western.

My son calls it cat piss, and yes it does.