Melomel? Or Not?

[Michael_Ng]

I’m in the process of reviewing some new mead for KWMeads.com and I noticed that a few of them are actually meads that have been blended with fruit wine. (Presumably after fermentation has completed, similar to Chaucer’s Raspberry Mead.)

With this in mind, would they still be considered a Melomel? Or does the fruit need to ferment with the honey to qualify? Where do we draw the line?

Ideas? Suggestions? Comments?

Michael Ng
Owner - Knowne World Meads
http://www.KWMeads.com

 

[Oskaar]

NOT

LOL

I've tasted several "Meads" that are purported to be melomels (Honeyrun, Chaucer's, Bunratty, etc.) that are a mixture of fruit or grape wine and mead. To me they're just a blend of mead and wine masquerading as a melomel. Fruit fermented in a mead has a very different character than a fruit wine added to a mead post fermentation.

Hope that helps,

Oskaar

 

[Greenblood]

For those that agree that this is the case then what do you think of meads that have fruit added to the secondary in refrigeration (ie Redstone)? It is essentially Mead mixed with fruit juice. Are they not melomels either? Are they still Mead? I am curious to hear peoples opinions, as I do not realy feel strongly one way or the other.

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

It's pretty standard practice for a lot of folks to add fruit to the secondary as attested to by the poll taken here earlier. A lot of people also make a good show mead, then add whatever fruit they want when it is available/in season.

The wine and mead mix, assuming no additional fermentation, comes across to me like a mixed drink, like a marguerita (vodka and triple-sec(sp?). I suppose one could argue that a show mead added to fruit where no secondary fermentation occurs is a lot like a cordial. Certainly fruit in the primary fermentation vs. fruit in a secondary fermentation vs vs adding fruit flavors juice or wine vs soaking fruit in mead to draw out the flavor apart from a fermentation would all produce different tastes.

I suppose in my opinion, that to qualify as a melomel, the mead needs to have had the fruit in the must (with the honey) during fermentation, whether primary or later...

Will be interesting to see what others think...

 

[lostnbronx]

Well, in my Mead Taxonomy project, which I posted here about two months ago, I called mead and wine fermented separately and then blended together, specifically (if not imaginatively), "Mead Wine", for lack of something better.

As for mead with fruit juice added, this just seems to be a form of backsweetening to me, which is something other meaderies and many hobbiests do (myself included, from time to time). In this case, the sugars used are also imparting a fruit varietal flavor.
Whether they are true melomels or just flavored meads, I'm not sure.

-David

 

[Dmntd]

Strictly speaking...

By definition, Melomel is a mead made with fruit or fruit juice. Anything that has been blended afterwards with another wine or juice would be something else.

Like Braggot is a mead made with malt & Bracket is a drink blended from mead and ale.

Anthony

 

[pain]

I *always* add my fruit/herbs/flowers to the secondary, I find my meads retain much more of the character of the add-in that way.

Regarding Redstone, well, I'm a bit predjudiced because I love their stuff, but I think they make a good mead. To my knowledge, they add their fruit in the secondary, but it does get fermented. And if you've tasted their meads, you cannot say it's a wine. It just isn't. The honey character of their products is *very* evident, and with the exception of their pyments (in which the grapes are added in the secondary), you can't push them out of mead into wine.

I have to admit to liking Bunratty, even tho its not mead in the real sense. Its still tastes nice, at least the bottles I've had.

For finishing some of my meads, like the rhodomel, I add things like rose water and rose syrup to help out the roses that I add in the secondary. I prefer that (in this particular recipe) to adding honey to backsweeten, as the rose syrup gives me both the sweetness level I'm seeking, and adds to the rose flavor. A slick solution, IMO, and it is *still* a mead. I ferment a show mead in primary, then add the rose petals during secondary, so the stuff gets fermented.

Honestly, I think a 'mead' is a wine fermented with honey instead of grapes, and water and yeast. Whatever you do to it after that just adds to the ambiance. It doesn't make it less of a 'mead'. Now, a wine with honey or mead *added* is not a mead. But saying that a mead with things added that don't happen to ferment isn't a mead, is like saying that a wine with things added that don't happen to ferment isn't a wine. We're getting a bit to conservative, IMO, in our definitions.

Just my .02,

Vicky

 

[Dmntd]

I can clearly see your point Vicky, I'm not suggesting that a mead flavored after fermentation has finished is anything other then mead.

But it should be considered a flavored mead rather then a melomel.

This is a distinction I feel should be made clear, and set as part of the IMA guidelines.

Anthony

Pig-headed in L.A.

 

[pain]

Hey Anthony, discussion is a *good* thing, no? Don't take me wrong, I'm just jumping into the conversation. Have you considered joining Oskaar's Hobbyist group? They're doing a lot of good things in defining what is and isn't a mead in creating a set of guidelines for mead judging for the hobby mead competition at the Meadfest in '06. You've got some good points, and I think that this is worthy of discussion.

Is a mead with fruit added later (but not fermented) a melomel? Good question. And one I'm certainly not qualified to say yea or nay on. But a good question for the IMA to tackle, I think. If the IMA is to become a force in the mead industry, and I think it will, answering these kinds of questions is mandatory.

 

[Dmntd]

Hey Vicky, yes, discussion is a good thing. I really didn't take your comments one way or the other. I'll talk to Oskaar about the hobbyist group.

Thank You,

Anthony

 

[pain]

You've raised an interesting question! I'll be really interested to see what comes out of it.

Vicky - who *really* should be working.....

 

[Oskaar]

Wow Michael,

I didn't think this would turn into a Holy war over what is or isn't melomel! LOL

I'm pretty much there with Vicky on mead being honey-wine and I approach my mead making like I approach my wine making. I indicated in a previous post that adding fruit wine or grape wine (wine hereafter) to mead doesn't make it a melomel and I still stand by that, but I don't think it makes it any less of a mead either. I think the trick is to make a harmonious blend of whatever you're using and coming up with a end product that is an improvement on both. There are few wines that are not blends of different grapes from different vineyards, and different varietals. Also many wines are blends of wines made post fermentation in order to increase mouthfeel, structure, complexity and overall character. Again, an improvement on both of the building blocks.

I also don't believe that in mead making adding fruit to the secondary makes the mead any less a melomel than adding fruit to the primary. I do both, and also add fruit in both the primary and secondary, and sometimes even after that if I don't feel I'm getting the kind of melomel character that I want. Adding wine to mead after fermentation is just a different type of blending of two semi-finished products. And just because something is added after fermentation does not mean it will not integrate, just that it was added later in the process.

I add oak at different stages along the way as well in order to integrate the oak character into my meads, sometimes the mead has been stable for months before I add oak, sometimes I add it in the primary. That's just the way things work in mead and wine making, you tweak and tweak until you find your spot, and then you work to produce it consistantly that way.

JMHO,

Oskaar

 

[pain]

Naw, not a holy war, Oskaar, just a spirited discussion, LOL. Seriously though, don't you think that this and other similar things are a worthy subject to attack? I think maybe I'll toss it out to the research committee, and see what happens......

Dan, you got a weigh-in on this?

Vicky

 

[lostnbronx]

Yes, I think we're all agreed that these things are mead; the only question is what kind of mead?

-David

 

[Greenblood]

There has been some fantastic discussion on this. I have realy enjoyed reading the differing opinions.

Vicky: You are correct that most of Redstones meads are fermented with fruit. That was an error on my part. It is only there "Nectars" that are not actually fermented with fruit.

I think I agree with the general concensus that mead with anything added can still be mead, but what category of mead still remains a question.

Greenblood

 

[lostnbronx]

For anyone interested, here's the link to a discussion on this general topic from a little while ago:

http://www.gotmead.com/smf/index.php/topic,1088.0.html

-David

 

[Norskersword]

In the end a word is just a perception.

I agree with Oscaar on the wine example. Many Cabernet Sauvignons are blended with around 20% Merlot and are still marketed as Cabernet Sauvignons, for example. Do some people frown at that and say, "That isn't a real Cabernet Sauvignon"? Probably! But do you? That's your choice!

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

I am enjoying the discussion...

But we have to be careful...

Can vodka with grape juice added be considered wine? Why or why not?

Can a Cabernet with honey added be considered mead? Why or why not?

I believe the answer to tougher combinations, like the honey/fruit wine combo lie in applying the same philosophy with which you answer these questions.

I like the idea of coming up with terminology that describes the contents of the bottle in a way that a person trying to buy a certain type of mead can find what they want.

I personally like the idea of calling the mead/wine combination a "blended mead". If I wanted to go a step further, it would be nice for me to tell how much "blending" was done. Is the product 10 percent mead/90 percent wine? 90 percent mead/10 percent wine? Or 50/50 or what?

Wouldn't it be reasonable that I would pay a higher price for a "blended mead" that was higher in mead content than fruit wine content? This may sound a bit confrontational but would I be getting the same value on a mead that had been made with puree or fresh squeezed juice as I would with a mead/wine combo? Wouldn't I expect the price on one to be less than the other because of the costs involved in production?

Like I said, I am enjoying the discussion and just wanted to stir the pot a bit...

Peace,
Pewter

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

Dang, got me thinking this morning...

Let me ask a question for everyone...

Is it a melomel if it is a show mead with a few milliliters of flavoring extract added?

Is mulled mead truly a metheglin?

Peace,
Pewter

 

[Dmntd]

No and NO. I tend to keep a hard view on a lot of things. The Definition of a term being one of them (my girl insist I'm pig-headed about that). I use a 1939 Wlm. Webster dictionary by definintion (in that book) naked means un-armed and un-able to defend ones self, Nude is to be without clothing.

When we allow folks to use terms to mean whatever the hell they want them to mean, being clear as to what you mean when you say something becomes harder and harder. I'm of the opinion, we as mazers/mead makers set hard and fast guidelines.

I've read the post about set classes being confusing, well put your big girl panties on and deal with it.

Take a look at beer, there are very stirct guide lines as to what can be called what, if a brew falls out side the guidelines of a style it is still beer, however it is not that style of beer. We should set standards that must be met for a mead to be considered of a style, if it does not meet the standard it should just be called mead with whatever added blended and so on.

Melomel A mead Made With. fruit or fruit juice, not blended with,

If it's fermented from honey and water it's mead.

Anthony

We now return your soap box to its Regular hard liner.